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Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

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Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#351

Post by TeMPOraL »

lhnz wrote: post #182

I enjoy programming but 'working as a programmer' is infuriating. There are so many interesting product ideas yet 'me-too' CRUD app recreations of previously successful incumbents products are highly desired. This is particularly true in the startup ecosystems where kids talk about 'interesting' problems and finding 'purpose' and yet are blindly following the mantras and motivational speeches of trite capitalists. I…

Seconded. Programming is extremely fun and rewarding. Working as a programmer, for me, not so much. Maybe it's because my definition of "interesting problems" is different from what's considered "interesting" to the business world. Maybe because I can barely stand using up most of the day on working on things I don't care about, under time pressure. I know I can do the very same things at 10x the efficiency when I'm not forced to do them. Flipping the single bit labeled "work" is enough to make me lose interest in the task.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#352

Post by data_hope »

hellameta wrote: post #331
dev360 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I joke with programmer friends that we should become gardeners instead. I guess the appeal of physical labor is you get to leave work at work.

The appeal of physical labor? People only do physical labor because they are either unlucky or simply lack the knowledge to choose another path. I don't expect that to be the popular perspective on "PC" hacker news but that is the real world for you. Show me a gardener who wouldn't want to make 6 figures instead of breaking their back day in and day out for close to if not minimum wage? Appeal? Yeah right.

and the realities of the job economy is exactly why "not PC"?

of course physical labor does not pay as much, as long as the pool of workers is significantly larger. Doesn't mean that some folks would choose another career path if other fields would pay as much as software engineering does.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#353

Post by marknutter »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #348
marknutter wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am a particularly privileged individual because I have a choice of what labor I can do, and even how much to an extent. Most people don't have the choice of just switching careers because they feel like it, and even fewer have the option of even realizing that there is some sort of activity that would be more fulfilling than what they do to survive. This is poisonous thinking. Programming is one of the most acces…

> This is poisonous thinking. Programming is one of the most accessible industries on the planet that doesn't involve physical labor. If somebody has the desire, they can learn how to program and land a job for FREE. Not when you spend 8+ hours doing a demanding but low-paying job (like most are) and then have to come home (+1-2h) to take care of the spouse/children/parents. And even without the latter obligations, t…

Boy, you're right, it is hard. I guess that's good enough reason not to try.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#355

Post by ryandrake »

logfromblammo wrote: post #350
sciguy77 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah, can you expand on this? Are you a contractor or a government employee? What makes it laid back? Are the deadlines just more reasonable?

It depends on the contract. For the most part, the scrutiny of government auditors ensure that you actually can't work more than 40 hours in a single week. Sometimes the contract also ensures that the work cannot be done outside of a government-controlled facility. So if you're the actual do-the-work peon instead of someone in any of the several tiers of useless middlemen, you work regular 8 hour days, get 10 or 11 p…

> There are plenty of downsides, of course. The work is never glamorous, and you never really have much say in what you do or how you do it. You have zero job security, as you could be out of work if the wind changes direction in Washington, DC. The codebase will always be complete garbage when you are first introduced to it. The unimaginative and slow environment is not stimulating, so you absolutely must have a hobby or side-project that can engage you mentally outside of work.

These are the same downsides you see in the private sector.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#356

Post by tdsamardzhiev »

softawre wrote: post #337
hellameta wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The appeal of physical labor? People only do physical labor because they are either unlucky or simply lack the knowledge to choose another path. I don't expect that to be the popular perspective on "PC" hacker news but that is the real world for you. Show me a gardener who wouldn't want to make 6 figures instead of breaking their back day in and day out for close to if not minimum wage? Appeal? Yeah right.

You are right. But... I'd be a gardener. If it paid me the same I make now. At least for 3 months a year? I worked at Lowes in college hauling lumber and I miss it dearly (rose colored goggles and all). I was in the best shape of my life, I didn't think about work (lumber?) at home. It was a simpler life.

Last summer I discovered I particularly like gardening. I think I'd be a gardener too if it paid the same.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#357

Post by shade23 »

hellameta wrote: post #331
dev360 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I joke with programmer friends that we should become gardeners instead. I guess the appeal of physical labor is you get to leave work at work.

The appeal of physical labor? People only do physical labor because they are either unlucky or simply lack the knowledge to choose another path. I don't expect that to be the popular perspective on "PC" hacker news but that is the real world for you. Show me a gardener who wouldn't want to make 6 figures instead of breaking their back day in and day out for close to if not minimum wage? Appeal? Yeah right.

I disagree with your POV.I would rather say that everyone likes a change.Most of the programmers have very active lifestyle where they pursue physical labour based hobbies.To bring in an age-old platitude , "Everything is good in moderation" .You have extremes like a person who decided to leave programming to become a farmer[1]. And several other examples like this exist.What you need to understand is the satisfaction which comes from making things. I love programming solely because of my ability to create. Infact I feel that it is the ability to create that would drive any job.A skilled artisan pursues his interest because of the satisfaction he obtains from his creations.The same goes for us programmers. It comes down to the fact of skilled labour possessed by you.And if you really think that blue collar workers earn less,then you are quite mistaken[2].

TLDR; its the passion for creation which drives any job.As a programmer having things setup in hours or weeks and then seeing your product being used by a percentage of the 3 billion people[3] who use the www.It brings a hell load of satisfaction in me.

[1]:http://hello-world.io [2]:http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/plumber/salary [3]:http://www.internetlivestats.com/internet-users/

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#358

Post by reustle »

ryandrake wrote: post #340
reustle wrote: post #15

I worked for a few years as a programmer but also exercised my people skills over time (being in NYC). I eventually realized I didn't want to write code for work anymore, only for fun. I eventually did a bit more management related stuff at one of my gigs, and now I run a small development shop which requires very little coding on my part. I'm really happy with how things have turned out.

Great story, I'm jealous! Assuming by "run" you mean you own the shop, I would love to learn in more detail how you were able to leap from day-to-day programming to being able to afford your own company. I see a lot of responses like that in this wonderful thread: I used to program for a few companies, then I got into management a bit, and now I own my own company. That's listing step 1, 2, 3, and then jumping to ste…

I had been freelancing on and off for years, so I understood how those relationships worked. I started off freelancing on my own, then brought on a part time contractor to help take on some of the extra worked and scaled up from there. Now I have multiple contractors working all the time. I did the jump while also moving into the "nomadic" lifestyle, backpacking around se asia while building everything up, which kept expenses way lower than my nyc rent.

- sent from ho chi minh city, vietnam :)

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#359

Post by unknownknowns »

sciguy77 wrote: post #324
unknownknowns wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've enjoyed working in national security and defense. It's a laid-back environment and I can leave work at work without feeling stressed.

Woah, can you expand on this? Are you a contractor or a government employee? What makes it laid back? Are the deadlines just more reasonable?

I'm a full-time employee. Managers and government benefits are a pretty big part of it. Work hours are very flexible (some roll in at 6am, others 10am), lengthy vacationable time, etc. Like morga3sm said, we want to do things correctly.

It has its downsides of course: getting a TS security clearance can be stressful, but that goes away afterwards; not being able to tell your SO what you do other than high-level stuff; career advancement and progression can be a long process and you basically know where your salary is going to go when you first start (because it is standardized); and so on.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#360

Post by J-dawg »

forgetsusername wrote: post #153
J-dawg wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often thought about the possibility of designing a company specifically to maximise the wealth of its employees. Choose a location with a low cost of living, give equity to all employees, maybe provide accommodation / food as part of the benefits package. I'm not sure if I'm describing a cooperative, I just know that most normal companies do the exact opposite of this: they force you to live in a high cost area…

> I know there are plenty of good reasons why humans have decided to live in cities, but I can't help thinking there's a better way. The fallacy is in believing you can't have both a reasonable cost of living and the benefits of a city. There are plenty of such places, globally. As more and more people realize that it's unnecessary to assemble in specific places I think we'll see a sea change. Programmers are going t…

It would be cool if you could expand on this. Do you live in one of these places?

I'm also wondering when there's going to be a sea change. London is full of people in their 20s spending ~50% of their income on rent, and pretty much just breaking even overall.

I feel like people are going to get sick of this eventually. Either people will leave the most expensive cities, or new ways of "hacking" housing will emerge.

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