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Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

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Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#341

Post by matwood »

troupo wrote: post #318
Matumio wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of? Text search will also find commented out usage, docu, changelog, and my .org file with refactoring ideas from last month. (For better or worse.) It will also show when a class with the same method names exists elsewhere - which you want to know about if the naming is good. To find usage of a method called "update", LSP results will be better, but... that was kind of the point? That you don't name your method…

> Text search will also find commented out usage, docu, changelog, and my .org file with refactoring ideas from last month Yes, when searching across the entire project for text an instant fuzzy search is an invaluable tool. > It will also show when a class with the same method names exists elsewhere Oh, this is a great example when a code -aware tool is better. I also ave a rant-ish about LSP at the end. So, let's s…

I'm glad you mentioned IDEA, so I didn't have to. People rave about LSP and it's great that it exists, but IDEA has been doing more advanced code navigation for years (decades?).

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#342

Post by fsckboy »

bingaweek wrote: post #87
brookst wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but isn’t this just “why don’t you use the backup camera that all cars have had for a decade or more” / “I learned to drive without one, and you could too”?

Are we trying out car analogies? How about instead of backup cameras, which are consistent and provide extra information, you have a camera that randomly guesses things around your car? Sometimes it's right, sometimes it's wildly wrong, but mostly it doesn't affect your driving speed.

>backup cameras, which are consistent and provide extra information

in order to be extra information for me, the backup camera display screen would need to be in the back seat of the car, where I'm looking while I back up

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#343

Post by mikeocool »

brabel wrote: post #184
daltonpinto wrote: post #99

This question reminds me of the first time I met a blind programmer. I asked him how he managed to code, and he replied with something that stayed with me: a good programmer should organize software in such a way that every piece of code has a clear and logical place. The organization should be so intuitive that anyone could build a mental model of the structure and navigate it easily, even without seeing it. It felt…

> Not only do I avoid using LSP features, but I’m also opposed to their use. While they can help with navigation, they may prevent developers from experiencing and addressing the underlying structural issues in their code. LSP by itself will not prevent anything. LSP (using the terminology from OP, but any IDE really) is just a tool like any other which allows you to do things faster. It doesn't matter how organized…

I find the more plugins I add to vscode to do all of the automation, keypresses become more and more sluggish. It seems like it wouldn’t be noticeable — we’re talking about milliseconds.

But I find there to be a world of difference between every keypress being processed as I touch the key versus slightly after it.

With enough experience on a given language you just of internalize a lot of the common linter rules.

I use ctrl-space to activate autocomplete when I need it, but I find when it pops up automatically to be maddening.

I’ve been using AI autocomplete more and more, though it’s a real mixed bag between seeming magical and guessing the completely wrong thing.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#344

Post by crabbone »

throwaway81523 wrote: post #139

I use Emacs and sometimes I open a window to bring up a man page or code definition for some function, but I've never felt the need for a fancy IDE. You just get used to what is going on in the code. Like if you are a fiction writer and you're asked to write a new Star Trek episode, after watching a few existing episodes you would get familiar enough with the characters and milieu to not need to refer to the series b…

For years now Emacs had integration with LSP. The experience isn't quite the same as VSCode (I think, there are some proprietary extensions to LSP protocol, or some such, but don't quote me on this). But it's good enough to work in most cases (this is how I write in Ada and Rust, for instance). So, if you use Emacs: https://github.com/joaotavora/eglot I believe this is the most popular implementation.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#345

Post by greentxt »

brabel wrote: post #184
daltonpinto wrote: post #99

This question reminds me of the first time I met a blind programmer. I asked him how he managed to code, and he replied with something that stayed with me: a good programmer should organize software in such a way that every piece of code has a clear and logical place. The organization should be so intuitive that anyone could build a mental model of the structure and navigate it easily, even without seeing it. It felt…

> Not only do I avoid using LSP features, but I’m also opposed to their use. While they can help with navigation, they may prevent developers from experiencing and addressing the underlying structural issues in their code. LSP by itself will not prevent anything. LSP (using the terminology from OP, but any IDE really) is just a tool like any other which allows you to do things faster. It doesn't matter how organized…

"the whole point of your job is automation?"

Automation is not the point of programming. Think hard about this. It's the most important point. Code/build/hack to create more work for people to do, not less. It's thanatos. People need to unlearn "programming==automation" before it's too late. Everything we do as programmers should be done with "create more work" as a mantra.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#346

Post by jazzyjackson »

troupo wrote: post #305
jazzyjackson wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhhh that would involve a mouse, gross ; )

"Uhhh that would involve a precision action with a tool specifically designed for precision actions" ;)

I can definitely hit my Return key with more precision than I can drag a cursor over a 40x400px target but go off :P

(I use a Superior Technologies trackball because it's the only mouse I could find manufactured in the USA and it's really not very precise, it's kind of a self handicap to nudge me towards keyboard shortcuts, muscle memory gains just have a steeper curve on keyboard than mouse)

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#347

Post by spamizbad »

So back in the day before LSPs:

Typically I'd leverage 2 large monitors and keep at least 3 editor "views" into code open at once: one for what I was actively working on and 2 others that would contain reference code. You also take considerable care as to how you organize the code, so that grepping for definitions is easy. If I needed to see how a particular object or function worked, I'd pull it up in one of the auxiliary code windows - which would typically start with a grep alias command that would have a shortcut to open it in a designated emacs buffer window. Not anywhere near as convenient as an LSP but it got the job done.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#350

Post by dmmartins »

I get distracted by auto complete and they usually stay in front of the code, so I can't read it. I find it annoying when I'm pairing with someone that uses it and the auto complete/type hint/whatever pops up and covers most of the code I was trying to read

Working in a code base every day I end up creating a mental map of the code and the data, so it's not hard to find stuff I'm looking for. When that doesn't work, a global search or find/grep helps.

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