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Ask HN: What is your system for backing up family photos and video?

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Re: Ask HN: What is your system for backing up family photos and video?

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did the same thing with a WD My Cloud (6 tb redundant RAID 1) man was that a terrible decision. One failed and then the other eventually did as well (within 3 years) - not to mention it was painfully slow and cost maybe 600 USD. I've since been able to recover them through another external drive casing but I haven't found a replacement idea on what to do.

Wasn’t My Cloud also hacked rather severely?

Quite possibly - it really was a bad product and the interface to connect your local storage to a cloud front end was bad and super slow (which is why i didn't use it).

Re: Ask HN: What is your system for backing up family photos and video?

#342

1. copy to hard disk 2. buy a new drive every year and copy it forward 3. store a copy with relatives Note that a cloud provider: 1. can shut off your access at any time, by accident or on purpose, and you have no recourse 2. will sell your data to anyone at any time 3. will give it to any government for the asking 4. will leak it to any hacker 5. will allow employees of said cloud provider to browse your data 6. wil…

> 2. will sell your data to anyone at any time

I've never heard that, is there any evidence that this has happened?

Re: Ask HN: What is your system for backing up family photos and video?

#343
post #67

I burn 25 GB M-DISCs every few months. If I were being properly rigorous I'd be burning three copies and putting two of them in different physical places. Printing out the occasional photo book of our favorites is also a part of the strategy - if our grandkids want to see photos of our lives after we're dead, they won't need to worry about lapsed hosting bills or ancient storage technology. They can just look at the…

I find 100 GB mdiscs somewhat cheaper per GB than the 25 ones.

Huh, thanks for the heads-up.

IIRC, when I settled on the 25s, they were a slightly better price/GB than the 100s. Maybe that's no longer true (or possibly never was).

Re: Ask HN: What is your system for backing up family photos and video?

#344
post #283

1. copy to hard disk 2. buy a new drive every year and copy it forward 3. store a copy with relatives Note that a cloud provider: 1. can shut off your access at any time, by accident or on purpose, and you have no recourse 2. will sell your data to anyone at any time 3. will give it to any government for the asking 4. will leak it to any hacker 5. will allow employees of said cloud provider to browse your data 6. wil…

1. Bitflip. 2. Copying Error ( Not sure if that is still a thing on Windows ) 3. HDD failure. A cheap, ZFS, consumer friendly, Dual 2.5" HDD DAS would have been great. Unfortunately no one is making one. May be there is no market, May be they just dont care. Or burn it to an Archival Disc. Apple could have make an iOS Time Capsule. But they are too busy to push their service revenue.

>A cheap, ZFS, consumer friendly, Dual 2.5" HDD DAS would have been great. Unfortunately no one is making one. May be there is no market, May be they just dont care.

IIRC ZFS is more trouble than it's worth on tiny systems due to the RAM requirements... generally speaking if you care enough to want ZFS specifically you'll get a slightly larger QNAP / similar NAS (I think the smallest ZFS capable qnaps are 4-bay), or just DIY the hardware and install FreeNAS (or similar) on top.

It might work its way down to the consumer segment eventually but given cloud is pushed heavily (and often you get a decent chunk of storage for free with M365 / google / whatever), needs no end-user know-how, and provides a touch of geographic separation in case of a house fire or other minor disaster it's hard to see tiny ZFS boxes competing vs. cheap cloud storage.

Re: Ask HN: What is your system for backing up family photos and video?

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually do this? Or is it theory?

Yes. Newegg spams me all the time with offers for deep discounts on disk drives, and I take advantage.

Okay, so tell me: how do you do it? What are the error modes you've experienced?

Re: Ask HN: What is your system for backing up family photos and video?

#346
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lease agreement on those boxes usually states the customer assuming all risk. Sometimes boxes randomly go missing, and natural disasters can make them inaccessible. "She sued the bank in Los Angeles Superior Court, seeking $7.3 million. Bank of America sought to have the case dismissed, citing language in its lease agreement stating that the renter “assumes all risks” of leaving property in the box."[0] [0] https…

You bring up the lease agreement, but you should look also to the terms of service of the various cloud storage services. Chances are the deposit box are way better.

Let it never be said I can't change my mind. HN is supposed to be open, curious discussion, right?

No, I'm not closing my safe deposit box, but that article made me realize the danger of banks just deciding someday "You know what? Who needs those stupid things any more?"

Of course, the same thing applies to cloud backup services. Google is constantly telling me I should buy more storage.

Eventually, you don't want to rely on a service that's unprofitable for the company providing it. Unless, like an insurer paying off your life insurance policy, it's something that they can't out of, without destroying their reputation. Or bringing the government down on them.

Re: Ask HN: What is your system for backing up family photos and video?

#347

1. copy to hard disk 2. buy a new drive every year and copy it forward 3. store a copy with relatives Note that a cloud provider: 1. can shut off your access at any time, by accident or on purpose, and you have no recourse 2. will sell your data to anyone at any time 3. will give it to any government for the asking 4. will leak it to any hacker 5. will allow employees of said cloud provider to browse your data 6. wil…

> 1. copy to hard disk > 2. buy a new drive every year and copy it forward > 3. store a copy with relatives

Yep, always good to have a local copy.

> Note that a cloud provider: >1. can shut off your access at any time, by accident or on purpose, and you have no recourse

Absolutely, which is why steps 1-3 help here.

> 2. will sell your data to anyone at any time

Not true. Neither Google, Amazon or Microsoft do this. The current privacy policies state that. If you want to be extra cautious, you can create a cloud storage account or an account with personal domain and their privacy policies are even strong. Imaging Google or Microsoft "selling" a business's images in Photos or Drive.

> 3. will give it to any government for the asking

Unfortunately, true.

> 4. will leak it to any hacker

Will leak it is a bit too strong and harsh. 'Could be leaked' is better. Although, I have a basic trust in their security as opposed to not even using their services for this fear. Of course, I would never upload any 'private' or 'confidential' images there.

> 5. will allow employees of said cloud provider to browse your data

Again, false. 'Will' here is too strong. None of the employees have direct access to your data -- neither emails, nor images. And if you want to be even more confident, go for Google Suite or Microsoft 365 account and this is guaranteed to not happen.

> 6. will scan it to use it to sell you ads

True, but you could mitigate it by using the paid tier accounts.

> 7. will scan it looking for anything they don't approve of this week, and take "corrective action"

No arguments here -- although the paid tier accounts should guarantee this does not happen.

> 8. if you've got terabytes, good luck trying to download it

The better solution is to keep a local copy using steps 1-3 and also upload them to "your chosen service".

Re: Ask HN: What is your system for backing up family photos and video?

#348
post #270
post #93

For me the most important part is to keep it simple and not dependent on the one tech person of the family paying for some cloud storage. Unlike other mentions in the comments what you don't want to have is custom scripts, git, backups tools, strong encryption, cronjobs running on some server that will go away eventually. A labeled, unencrypted HDD in a closet in two different locations will most likely do the job ju…

I want to agree but find even this is too complicated some times. Where the HDD approach usually falls apart is merge conflicts. And by that I don’t mean only in the git world. This is an inherently difficult problem. Someone extracts a subset of the hdd collection onto their laptop to do some editing. Then forget to store back the result on the hdd for the next 6 months. Next time when doing backup, mix up the hard…

Maybe not exactly what you have in mind for spanning physical drives, but somewhat, perhaps...see Photo Mechanic Plus's cataloging feature: https://home.camerabits.com/tour-photo-mechanic-plus/

Re: Ask HN: What is your system for backing up family photos and video?

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve thought about it, but I think it’ll be a while before we’re able to get to that. We also run two other products, and we’re just two people. So, we’re already spread a bit thin.

Let me know if that happens! I'd love an easy way to make sure my data is safe in the event Google randomly bans me :) I'll check out Pixaver soon to see if it'd work as a backup for my Google Photos!

Nice! If you do try it, please let us know how the experience goes for you. I think the onboarding process is a bit intimidating given the (necessary, yet lengthy) permissions we request.

I’ll mention that you’d be interested in more options around backups to @shelkie. Like I said, I don’t think we can make this happen now, but it’s good to have a sense for what others might find useful.

Re: Ask HN: What is your system for backing up family photos and video?

#350
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Bitflip. 2. Copying Error ( Not sure if that is still a thing on Windows ) 3. HDD failure. A cheap, ZFS, consumer friendly, Dual 2.5" HDD DAS would have been great. Unfortunately no one is making one. May be there is no market, May be they just dont care. Or burn it to an Archival Disc. Apple could have make an iOS Time Capsule. But they are too busy to push their service revenue.

>A cheap, ZFS, consumer friendly, Dual 2.5" HDD DAS would have been great. Unfortunately no one is making one. May be there is no market, May be they just dont care. IIRC ZFS is more trouble than it's worth on tiny systems due to the RAM requirements... generally speaking if you care enough to want ZFS specifically you'll get a slightly larger QNAP / similar NAS (I think the smallest ZFS capable qnaps are 4-bay), or…

Please stop talking about ZFS having excessive RAM requirements - that only applies if you turn on De-Duplication. ZFS will happily run on a box with 2GB of RAM.
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