Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#341

Post by gfodor » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #309

Nasrudith wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't get to decide that. Your prejudices and carefully bonsaie gardened imperatives about how you think the world should work be do not change that fact any more than the tantrums in congresses and parliaments demanding encryption that doesn't work for "bad guys". It is fundamentally about information and its shapes.

> You don't get to decide that. Such is the nature of idealism. It is a shame we allow a world of plenty to artificially lock up value so a few people can feel better than others Alternatively, why is a piece of data not allowed to just be? You can see this everywhere, even outside the digital world and in the realm of the mind. An idea is never allowed to stand on its own merits, we always have to attach our bullshi…

You have a fundamental misunderstanding. The point is you simply will not get certain creative works in this model. They will not be worth the opportunity cost. There is no reality where you get “no scarcity” as well as “all the creative works you would have gotten with scarcity.” (Ie, probably most of those which have led to our present day wealth.)

Your proposed world is to say we ought to just not have people create lots of stuff they would have otherwise, in the name upholding a philosophical principle. Which is fine, but own that, and don’t act as though its the just the deficiencies of others leading to a world where you do not get a endless stream of value from them.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#342

Post by ladyattis » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

retrocryptid wrote: post #68

towards the end of SL's heyday, we were trying to make an open metaverse with OGPX, MMOX and VWRAP. alas, the company ran out of money before we could complete the work (and IBM kind of stiffed us on some IP issues.) it's interesting to note that cory and babbage and beez and a raft of other lindens wound up at FB between 2009 and 2011. i went to pitch the idea of continuing the "open metaverse" and try to get FB to…

It seems like FB is making similar mistakes then if they want to keep it as a 'own the venue' model. I think they can afford this mistake considering but in the end, it will greatly slow down the adoption of their platform.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#343

Post by ladyattis » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

From what I can see there's little value in the Metaverse concept because of the fact it is a rehash of Second Life but with the scale and funding of Meta (formally Facebook). Absent the cash flow and infrastructure no one would really care beyond VR enthusiasts.

The problem with the whole metaverse concept is that the implementation runs counter to the actual infrastructure underlying it. The Internet works so well because it's very permissive/open with data transfer. It's funny how that we now try to wrangle that back in when we should be making the other layers of the network (session, application, and presentation) as permissive as the lower level transport and link layers. But it seems we want to reinvent the centralized systems of old like mainframes and computer information services but without the old trappings as if people aren't fully aware of how that all worked out (badly for consumers).

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#344

Post by unethical_ban » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

long_time_gone wrote: post #145

abvdasker wrote: post #60

Second Life allowed for a lot of the NSFW content and interactions that people tend to enjoy both in entertainment and in real life (this is also true of VRChat to some extent). Metaverse will be a sanitized, sterile project for children. Fundamentally the people like Zuckerberg responsible for its execution do not understand what people want, which is why Metaverse has no chance of success.

> Fundamentally the people like Zuckerberg responsible for its execution do not understand what people want I agree with the broader point, but Facebook owns three of the most popular apps in the world. They have at least some idea of what people want.

I wonder if they've found a "local peak" of knowing how to get people addicted to news feeds and updates for advertising purposes. Are they really trying to figure out what people want, or just what they can monetize that is similar to what they already do?

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#345

Post by hhaha88 » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 3:56 PM UTC

We already have the metaverse.

It’s called a computer; dozens of protocols, billions of files and hundreds of algorithms, plenty of toolkits out there able to create immersive experiences.

What Zuckerberg is really building is the Zuckerberg reality distortion field.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#346

Post by TimJRobinson » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

keyle wrote: post #45

If you strap enough rockets to a pig, it will fly. If you throw enough cash at a problem, it will be "solved". I remember google wave. Remember that? The noise it made when it came out. What a mess. And then we got slack and discord and we must admit it somewhat solves the same ideas. So I don't know. We might very well be in VR goggles in 10 years surrounded by 25 virtual screens, 5 notification systems and parallel…

> I only hope we have choices. Because this new internet they're trying to push is further away from RFCs and open protocols than we've ever been. And that's very sad. Our parents gave us a free internet where everything is possible, and we're doing our very best to destroy that idea to a world of wall gardens and consumerism where the very few will even know how it works.

We do have choices. There's a LOT of innovation happening on Ethereum right now with Decentraland, VR gaming, NFT's (so you actually own your own items) etc. The open, free Metaverse is coming.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#347

Post by TimJRobinson » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

roywiggins wrote: post #174

charlesju wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree this is one facet, but other is we now have a trustless ownership protocol (ie. cryto + NFTs) that will lay the foundation for people "caring" about the stuff and status you have in the metaverse.

What stops me from minting an NFT that says I own anything I want? If platforms are only honoring NFTs minted by other platforms then they might as well just share that information in a database.

It's pretty easy to setup your own private WoW server where you can give yourself all the best items. Why do people then spend hundreds of hours grinding for them on official servers?

Ponder that question and you'll have your answer.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#348

Post by TimJRobinson » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 4:41 PM UTC

abeppu wrote: post #231

gfodor wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who decide which NFTs matter are the communities and cultures you participate in, and entities who have sovereignty over you. Which is no different than anything else.

Right but the point the grandparent I was adding to, and also what I understand delecti is saying is roughly: Meta or a similar platform is an "entity who has sovereignty". For users to have a coherent experience in the platform, it may essentially be required that the platform exercises some decision-making power on what NFTs to respect and which not to. Do I get to bring in and use item X just because I say I own i…

It's unlikely there will be one "world" with overseers and moderators, just like the internet is not one website.

The "metaverse" (not Facebook's) can be an open source platform where anyone can create their own worlds which accept the items they've added support for. This is the direction Decentraland is going in.

The core libraries to build your world will be open source and standardized, like a game engine, but the actual content will be up to the creators.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#349

Post by TimJRobinson » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

yesenadam wrote: post #80

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #77

There are three “branches” of the metaverse concept today: 1. VR rebranded (Facebook’s approach) 2. a specific family of games that allow you to buy and own land/territory, mediated by the blockchain (see Bit.Country[1] as one of many examples) 3. a term used widely in crypto/web3 world to refer specifically to the fact that we can finally build networks that people can own (buy/sell but also control directly via pro…

And if I want to understand the 3rd, what are some good things to read? Thanks.

https://tim.blog/2021/10/28/chris-dixon-naval-ravikant/ is a really good discussion of what's coming with web3.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#350

Post by charlesju » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

abeppu wrote: post #196

charlesju wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same way you can't just print out a copy of the mona lisa? People care about status and authenticity. Imagine a virtual world where 1. You have the validate you are an avatar you own 2. You can be anything you want The virtual world 1 is way more interesting because it's authentic and the people of status will want to use it and people of less status will build towards being higher status.

Who arbitrates which NFTs-based claims are respected versus not? How does one decide authenticity? And once you have an answer to such a question (relying on some preexisting system of ownership in the real world), then why should we care about tokens? E.g. if someone _does_ try to create an NFT for the Mona Lisa, our ability to refute / accept its authenticity is premised on the knowledge that in the real world, the…

Who arbitrates which NFTs-based claims are respected versus not?

> Future metaverse platforms will partner with high quality communities

How does one decide authenticity?

> That's the whole innovation behind the blockchain. Decentralized ownership claims.

And once you have an answer to such a question (relying on some preexisting system of ownership in the real world), then why should we care about tokens?

> For example, you could care about the token for the specific "metaverse" you're playing in

Who has the authority to say that you are or aren't you?

> I think you're touching on a very philosophically deep question of who you are. You think that the things you are and that you own are inherently yours, but I would argue your stuff and even your identity is all a social construct.

> For example, if you woke up tomorrow and everyone around you collectively agreed to say that you're insane and that you're an alien. Are you going to trust your own memories or are you going to trust the people around you.

> But I think you're missing out on the core innovation of blockchain which mimics the same way we determine who owns anything, which is completely a social construct.