Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#341

Post by pier25 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

> It's like you try to peel back a single layer of why people believe what they believe and there's nothing there.

There has to be something even if it is a primal behavior motivated by survival and reproduction.

Anyway, the vast majority of people care about something. Maybe you can sympathize with that if not with their lack of reflection, imagination, and eloquence.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#342

Post by squish78 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 3:46 PM UTC

peterlk wrote: post #315

wesammikhail wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how this is helpful to the parent comment. > If you talk to a person, and the conversation is dull, they might be a boring person. If most of the people you talk to seem boring, then you are the boring person. And I don´t really understand how you can come to that conclusion. That´s like 2+2 = duck In fact, > have limited relevant context outside your very limited definition of what is interesting If the per…

Before I respond to you, I will say that I have been on both sides of this argument. Especially early in college, there was so much to learn, and so many unknown unknowns. I craved the conversations with PhDs, postdocs, and researchers because everything they talked about was brand new to me. Being constantly immersed in new lines of human inquiry was beautiful. But after a while, the spaces of unknown unknowns becam…

I have nothing to add, but thank you for taking the time to write this out.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#343

Post by asdfman123 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 3:47 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #332

asdfman123 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard to get good at an instrument, but how you practice is the difference between accelerating skill and perpetual struggle. Don't "noodle around" as a beginner, because practice makes permanent and good form is everything. Do you want to be actually good and not just okay? Take weekly lessons, follow online tutorials carefully, and practice at least 30-45 minutes 6 days a week, giving it an absolute laser-l…

I bought my guitar in 1996 and have taken lessons 4 different times since then. The last stint of weekly lessons I had was last year for a few months. I've recently signed up for Fender's service and it's pretty good. I'm decent at switching between the basic open chord shapes, can barre some of those shapes fairly consistently, know power chords on the low E and A strings, and know a couple of scales fairly well (pe…

You know, I have a story similar to yours. My dad was a health nut and got me started lifting weights when I was 13. I did it on and off for years, even going to the gym for years or two at a time and staying committed. I'd get a little bit of definition but still stay skinny. I've been skinny my whole life.

Now I'm 33. Some guy on reddit said he'd coach me online, so I gave it a try. I'm tracking my macros and doing the workouts he recommends in my own gym, and the progress I'm suddenly making is kind of freaking me out. In a two week span, my legs have gotten weirdly big. My upper body looks lumpy. Every session I can lift more weight, and I'm getting stretch marks on my chest and back, simultaneously losing the relatively small amount of fat that I have and gaining muscle. I'm on the fast track to Gainsville, and all it took were a few relatively minor changes.

In retrospect, my problems were I wasn't tracking my calories or doing enough volume, and now that I have a trainer that put me on the right course I'm making a ton of progress.

My point in telling you this is maybe you just need to find the right teacher and practice regimen to make progress, and if you find it, you'd be surprised how fast you get good.

As an adult, maybe it will take you twice as much practice to get good than someone who's, say, 13. But you can still get there, and it's still worth it.

Perhaps you simply need to try again with a different approach and a different teacher and it will "click." They will give you exercises that will actually develop your ear and sense of rhythm. But you do have to commit to focused practice, no interruptions, and not in front of a computer, nearly every day for several months.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#344

Post by plutonorm » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

NeutralCrane wrote: post #254

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

No offense, but I mean this, earnestly: get over yourself. If you talk to a person, and the conversation is dull, they might be a boring person. If most of the people you talk to seem boring, then you are the boring person . You bemoan that you find almost everyone a "paper shell". And yet you are the one who has restricted your opinion of interesting people and topics with a PhD attached to it. You dismiss pursuits…

I think everyone is being a little rude and reactionary here.

People enjoy what they enjoy, it's not ok to demand that they change.

Suppose you lived in a world where everyone was obsessed with Pokemon. No one talked about anything else. Everyone around you had the mind of a 10 year old, in terms of intellectual and emotional development. How would you feel, could you really feel like you belonged?

There are people out there who are so smart that this how they feel about the people around them. They are just genuinely beyond them across the board, emotional, intellectual and spiritual development. They are lonely and they are bored and they are often a little bitter.

It's not their fault. It's not your fault. It just is. Leave them be and listen sympathetically to their point of view.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#345

Post by goostavos » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 3:55 PM UTC

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

Have you tried hanging out with the people on /r/iamverysmart? During your downtime, I'd also recommend this show called Rick and Morty. It can only truly be enjoyed by someone with a deep grasp of the boundaries of human knowledge on all subjects.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#346

Post by agentwiggles » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 3:56 PM UTC

wesammikhail wrote: post #272

NeutralCrane wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but I mean this, earnestly: get over yourself. If you talk to a person, and the conversation is dull, they might be a boring person. If most of the people you talk to seem boring, then you are the boring person . You bemoan that you find almost everyone a "paper shell". And yet you are the one who has restricted your opinion of interesting people and topics with a PhD attached to it. You dismiss pursuits…

Not sure how this is helpful to the parent comment. > If you talk to a person, and the conversation is dull, they might be a boring person. If most of the people you talk to seem boring, then you are the boring person. And I don´t really understand how you can come to that conclusion. That´s like 2+2 = duck In fact, > have limited relevant context outside your very limited definition of what is interesting If the per…

> Some people are not interested in those pursuits and they are, in comparison, very "pedestrian" in terms of complexity.

> Some topics are simple, others are more complex. The parent comment clearly enjoys pursuits that are of higher complexity and feels as if people in general do not share that interest and hence to him they seem boring.

I think it's silly to try to organize interests by some hierarchy of complexity. You're dismissing the topics "sports, family, food, religion" as "pedestrian." Any one of those topics could be discussed with staggering levels of complexity. Just like nearly any other conceivable topic, the only limitation to the "complexity" is a person's willingness to engage deeply with the topic.

If you (or anyone) doesn't find a particular topic interesting, that's fine. But let's be honest about the fact that it's a lack of personal interest in the topic that makes it boring for _you_, and not some inherent "lack of interestingness."

I identify with the feeling that not everyone thinks as deeply about things as I do. But I think it's fair to say that nearly everyone has some topic that they care deeply about and are capable of having a deep and complex conversation about. Just because interests don't always align doesn't mean that the rest of humanity is a bunch of paper shells.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#347

Post by mikorym » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

There is the converse argument that people who behave this way do so "naturally". And it may work well for that set of people.

There are also people like Grothendieck who were notorious for insisting on individuality and were the better off for it.

You can also be likeable and follow these steps "naturally" in a group that is closer to your affinity whereas in other groups you are the clear outsider.

Maybe I just don't like these kind of books?

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#348

Post by asdfman123 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #332

asdfman123 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard to get good at an instrument, but how you practice is the difference between accelerating skill and perpetual struggle. Don't "noodle around" as a beginner, because practice makes permanent and good form is everything. Do you want to be actually good and not just okay? Take weekly lessons, follow online tutorials carefully, and practice at least 30-45 minutes 6 days a week, giving it an absolute laser-l…

I bought my guitar in 1996 and have taken lessons 4 different times since then. The last stint of weekly lessons I had was last year for a few months. I've recently signed up for Fender's service and it's pretty good. I'm decent at switching between the basic open chord shapes, can barre some of those shapes fairly consistently, know power chords on the low E and A strings, and know a couple of scales fairly well (pe…

Oh, also I believe we have the same taste in music. I've learned how to play both About a Girl AND Drivin' on Nine on guitar.

Also, I saw the latter song in some venue in San Francisco in 2008. It was sublime.

I almost got a chance to interview Kim Deal for my college radio show before the concert, but they backed out.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#349

Post by mikorym » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

Even a PhD does not mean that I would want to have a conversation with that person.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#350

Post by zachrose » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

Just care less.

Don't worry too much about doing the perfect thing or building your product the right way. Whatever organization has hired you and your peers is by definition less knowledgeable, critical, and aesthetically sensitive than you are. Their goal isn't the "A-to-B" thing that you might think it is, because they don't really know what "B" is. Their goal is more like: hire some people, keep them happy, do some things that have a chance of bringing in money, and hopefully keep the lights on long enough to hire more people and take more chances at bringing in money.

However valuable "B" might seem, it's still finite. Comparatively speaking, culture and morale are infinitely valuable because they can get to so many other places than just "B." Whatever shortcomings you perceive in your implementation of "B" are at the end of the day are shortcomings of your team, and if there was a shortcut to get a perfect result out of imperfect people then capitalism as we know it would have already collapsed into something else. The only way to improve "B" (or "C" or "7" or "^" or whatever you do next) is to improve the team that's already there.

So relax. Have fun with the people you're stuck with. Try to do things better, sure, but don't blow out the engine trying to win the day's race.

Read Finite and Infinite Games by James P. Carse.