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Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

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Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#341

Been programming for 32 years 25 of which professionally. I never had a job as such; I always started companies based around tech of which I was the lead coder/CTO and it gave me a great life. I have other hobbies but I love coding and find it hard to imagine living without it; the creative process, the making of something that did not previously exist, the idea that you can make something without any funds; be it wi…

What sort of companies / products did you build? How did you first start? Did you sell the company, or is it a revenue generating model? How did you support yourself while building the company?

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've enjoyed working in national security and defense. It's a laid-back environment and I can leave work at work without feeling stressed.

What a world we live in. Defending the security of a nation = laid-back, no stress. Writing yet another CRUD backend for a mobile app = crazy hours and ulcers.

I mostly agree that the environment in government contracting is pretty laid back. We definitely have surge times, but generally we're focused more on getting things done correctly over fast. I think there's also a good understanding that people aren't as effective when they work over 40 hours/week for consecutive weeks.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#343
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for pointing out the fact that software compensation peaks early, and you pretty much hit a ceiling unless you win the startup lottery. A lot of people see the early money and forget this. As a software developer, 20 years into your career, your buddies that majored in finance, marketing or anything else, really, will likely have eclipsed you in terms of compensation, as they'll be senior directors of this…

There's not enough director or VP positions in the world for every buddy out there.

Tell that to my buddies :-)

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#344
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious; what do you consider of something working with your hands? I came from the opposite background (former chemist, process engineer, chemical engineering) and opposed the minimal work that hardly anyone cared for. With programming, moving electrons makes it a much bigger impact with much ease.

Conservation and restoration. Some of the things I do will hopefully outlast me. Your typical piece of software is replaced or rendered obsolete in a year or two. Unless you do something out of the ordinary, in five or ten years time the app, game or website you built is long forgotten or replaced.

That's why I'm losing some of my excitement in programming and getting it back again in designing physical board and card games. Video game development used to excite me, but now most games are made to be consumed in an hour or two and forgotten for the next game.

Meanwhile board games last, there's value in old editions (I picked up a 40 year old copy of Diplomacy recently), and people still play games that are decades old (not all games, but enough to be worthwhile).

Also, even if I never get a single board game published (unlikely), I will still leave prototypes behind for my family to encounter. Meanwhile, my video games are on my hard drive and could disappear if they don't keep perpetuating digital copies of them.

Also you can make a video game version of the board game you made and now you can sell in two different mediums.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#345
Super Happy. Happier than I have ever been in my working life, due in large part to said job allowing me to enjoy not-working-life more than at any previous point.

I was a Journalist, the video and multimedia producer for a medium market newspaper. Pay was lower middle income level. Hours were flexible when flexibility was an option, but revolved around an inflexible daily deadline.

I just spent my 4th weekend in a row snowboarding, and yesterday was 11" of powder. As a remote employee, I still have deadlines, but they are from days to months depending on the project. Pay is upper-middle income level. My boss is great, smartest person I've ever called a boss, and extremely reasonable and personable.

Right now, life is good.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#346
post #46

6/10. I'm less than 3 years into my career, but I think I've worked for some of the best companies with great pay, benefits, environments, etc, including a tech giant and two startups. End of the day though, work is boring. Its always work. Your time and effort is going towards making someone else rich and their priorities are more important than your own. The only things I really look forward to are vacations and ev…

Its depressing to make comparisons, but 99.9% of developers will never make half of what a specialized MD or successful lawyer or someone in finance might make. Why not make a much less depressing comparison and compare developer wages to manual labourers or retail staff? Compare a typical developer to a typical retail worker and we get way more money for way less stress. We're not at the top end of the scale, but we…

> And there's always the possibility that we might hit on an idea that returns literally billions of dollars. Or work for someone else who had that idea and walk away with literally hundreds of millions of dollars. Most people don't have that sort of opportunity.

This reads like a sales pitch for the lottery, and as a random developer, your odds are pretty similar.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#347
That's a difficult question to answer.

On one hand, it's a cushy job. I work from home almost whenever need to. I can find remote work if that's not enough. I'm paid well. I get a decent vacation time. It's easier than physical labor.

And I love to program. I enjoy solving problems and writing code to implement it. I even enjoy debugging and tracking down bugs.

But at the same time, I haven't found working as a programmer to be very enjoyable. It's rare that my interests and my work tasks intersect, so most of the time I'm toiling away on projects I'm not really interested in, wishing I was working on whatever small project I've come up with at home.

Also, as I've grown older I've become increasingly annoyed by the "culture" around programming and computers.

TBH, I often wonder if I wouldn't be better off doing something else and just programming at home in my spare time.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not bizarre. There is a long historical culture of criticism of capitalism. It's just been squashed in recent decades. I am a particularly privileged individual because I have a choice of what labor I can do, and even how much to an extent. Most people don't have the choice of just switching careers because they feel like it, and even fewer have the option of even realizing that there is some sort of activity th…

> I am a particularly privileged individual because I have a choice of what labor I can do, and even how much to an extent. Most people don't have the choice of just switching careers because they feel like it, and even fewer have the option of even realizing that there is some sort of activity that would be more fulfilling than what they do to survive. This is poisonous thinking. Programming is one of the most acces…

> This is poisonous thinking. Programming is one of the most accessible industries on the planet that doesn't involve physical labor. If somebody has the desire, they can learn how to program and land a job for FREE.

Not when you spend 8+ hours doing a demanding but low-paying job (like most are) and then have to come home (+1-2h) to take care of the spouse/children/parents. And even without the latter obligations, there's only so much one can do after being exhausted doing the day; life is not just about working, and many (most?) people can't psychologically sustain doing only work for longer periods of time.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#349
post #182

I enjoy programming but 'working as a programmer' is infuriating. There are so many interesting product ideas yet 'me-too' CRUD app recreations of previously successful incumbents products are highly desired. This is particularly true in the startup ecosystems where kids talk about 'interesting' problems and finding 'purpose' and yet are blindly following the mantras and motivational speeches of trite capitalists. I…

The problem with CRUD apps is that they are architected around persistance, the product particularities and business logic are then like second class citizens that must play by CRUD-world or the framework of the year rules. The result is often a mediocre and painful to maintain app which may fulfill a bureaucracies' objectives but for the programmer it feels like being forced to be unprofessional , as if a surgeon was asked to perform an operation with a rusty saw.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've enjoyed working in national security and defense. It's a laid-back environment and I can leave work at work without feeling stressed.

Woah, can you expand on this? Are you a contractor or a government employee? What makes it laid back? Are the deadlines just more reasonable?

It depends on the contract. For the most part, the scrutiny of government auditors ensure that you actually can't work more than 40 hours in a single week. Sometimes the contract also ensures that the work cannot be done outside of a government-controlled facility.

So if you're the actual do-the-work peon instead of someone in any of the several tiers of useless middlemen, you work regular 8 hour days, get 10 or 11 paid holidays, and when you get home you are simply done with work until the morning of the next workday. It does not matter much if you do your job well or do it poorly, because there are so many other people working on it that you will never get recognition for a job done well, nor will you get any blame for doing it poorly, so long as it does what it says on the box.

The deadlines also vary by contract, but as every layer of middlemen adds its own padding, it wouldn't be remarkable to have two years to develop yet-another-CRUD-app with zero scalability, compatibility, or interoperability requirements.

No one doing the actual work is a direct government employee, because the uniform pay schedules are completely incompatible with industry norms. The government employees are simply there to make sure the contractors do what is required.

The net result is that you can get all your work done in just 2 hours and look busy for 6, or amble through it at a sloth's pace, gold-plating everything, achieving 100% test coverage, using ordinary software as a teaching lab for industry best practices, and such.

There are plenty of downsides, of course. The work is never glamorous, and you never really have much say in what you do or how you do it. You have zero job security, as you could be out of work if the wind changes direction in Washington, DC. The codebase will always be complete garbage when you are first introduced to it. The unimaginative and slow environment is not stimulating, so you absolutely must have a hobby or side-project that can engage you mentally outside of work.

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