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Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#331

Post by the_gorilla »

dang wrote: post #67
benterix wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes me sad. @dang, can you comment on that? I appreciate your integrity.

We didn't see it or demote it—it set off the flamewar detector. I've turned that off now, in keeping with the principle described here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41511529 . p.s. @dang is a no-op - I only saw this thread because I was doing our standard review of the flamewar detector. If you want guaranteed* message delivery, hn@ycombinator.com is the only way. * Well, mostly guaranteed. I assume there are…

That's awfully convenient. You don't moderate the content, your flame war detector goes off, and the algorithm removes it for you.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#332

Post by xenocratus »

karaterobot wrote: post #287
hunter2_ wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your data Is it yours though? The employer could probably argue that it's theirs. Devil's advocate: I think it's widely understood that entities can be transparent with their data if they choose, other than NDA scenarios.

Does my personal health information belong to my doctor? Not according to HIPAA, at least not in a way that gives the doctor control over selling it. While my pay is currently not protected by similar regulation, it seems like the kind of protection regulation similar to HIPAA could defensibly target.

Your personal health information is information that pertains to you and you only. Your compensation is part of a contract between yourself and your employer, hence why both parties have to sign it, and why both parties have ownership over it.

Not arguing that payroll information can't be protected, my only point was that your comparison was off.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#333

Post by MichaelZuo »

nsxwolf wrote: post #205
Panini_Jones wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a datapoint for how I've seen this used in the real world, I've spoken to startups who will defer to Pave regarding how much they'll offer to pay. The startup I spoke to said 'We pay you the 85th percentile for your YOE and role based on Pave data'.

Then I want 99th.

Considering the median tech startup employee is already above average, I think the 99th percentile, and above, really only belongs to literal, bonafide, geniuses…

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#334

Post by maxwell »

iav wrote: post #189
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downloaded a personal report from the work number website and found to my horror that my employer was reporting every. single. paystub. gross and net, to equifax. That felt like a huge breach of privacy. Given that equifax had already proven incompetent at keeping my data secure, I immediately sent HR a request to stop sending my supposedly 'confidential' pay info. They politely told me to kick rocks, so I went on…

I am an investor in equifax. Let me clear up a misconception on where the data comes from. Half the data comes from large enterprise customers, who “sell” the data in exchange for Equifax doing I-9 verification for free. The other half comes from 39 payroll companies. Every single payroll company except for Rippling and Gusto sell paystub data to Euifax. (Rippling will start next year). Those are exclusive revenue sh…

Sounds like Gusto is the only acceptable option then. Thanks for the info!

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#335

Post by hammock »

iav wrote: post #189
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downloaded a personal report from the work number website and found to my horror that my employer was reporting every. single. paystub. gross and net, to equifax. That felt like a huge breach of privacy. Given that equifax had already proven incompetent at keeping my data secure, I immediately sent HR a request to stop sending my supposedly 'confidential' pay info. They politely told me to kick rocks, so I went on…

I am an investor in equifax. Let me clear up a misconception on where the data comes from. Half the data comes from large enterprise customers, who “sell” the data in exchange for Equifax doing I-9 verification for free. The other half comes from 39 payroll companies. Every single payroll company except for Rippling and Gusto sell paystub data to Euifax. (Rippling will start next year). Those are exclusive revenue sh…

Can I opt out thru the payroll company?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#336

Post by alasdair_ »

fragmede wrote: post #277
gperkins978 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public servants do not make enough money to be useful targets. The meaningful threat comes from large compensation tied to other asset information (tying an online person to that income, not difficult). You can buy lists of these already tied up and ready to download for your scheming pleasure. From English Rolex robbers to Florida kidnappers, they all enjoy the data. I do not think it can be stopped, but the days wh…

The security minded can move to a gated community, which are all over the place and have existed for a very long time, and don't require moving to Singapore or Australia to live in one.

I can't see a gated community being much of a deterrent to a gang of kidnappers sophisticated enough to use these services to find potential victims. Maybe if the gate has armed guards and a strict "no tailgating" policy with ID checks etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#337

Post by ghaff »

bjornsing wrote: post #328
ghaff wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies compare pricing all the time even if it doesn't involve smoke-filled rooms with execs doing tit-for-tat. You don't think your local grocery store knows what the other local chain is charging (or what they're paying their employees)?

Sure. And as I said there’s nothing illegal about that, as long as it’s about historical and current prices. But if your local grocer walks over to their competitor and has a conversation about what the prices (or salaries) should be tomorrow , then that’s illegal in many jurisdictions. The same rules should apply if they use software.

I don't actually know what the letter of the law is in US, much less other countries and depending on public sector vs. private. But, yeah, there's a lot of information sharing both direct and (often) indirect on existing and past pricing on at least the aggregate level and sometimes at a more specific level.

As you say, the boundary is often about what pricing should be next year. But there's often a lot of nudge-nudge-wink-wink given good information about what prices and salaries are today.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#338

Post by zoogeny »

This sounds like levels.fyi for companies? As long as they are selling aggregate data and not data specific to an individual (e.g. for determining an offer for a particular person) it seems reasonable.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#339

Post by MatthewMcDonald »

369548684892826 wrote: post #306
duderific wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did this for my recent automobile purchase. It's very convenient from my perspective to simply write a check and hand it to them.

But why not just pay by card, that must be even easier?

Many (most?) dealerships have a policy of not accepting more than a few thousand dollars on a credit card, they don't want to pay the fee

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#340

Post by asdasdsddd »

ein0p wrote: post #294
asdasdsddd wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

compete or die

The problem with that is thanks to many years of below cost pricing Uber has become synonymous with taxi now, and most people don’t even realize (or care) that taxis are often cheaper.

Uber is not seen as synonymous to taxi, its seen as better; more convenient (one app for any city), less fraudulent, and more safe. Uber more readily kicks drivers off the platform (for better or for worse)
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