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Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

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321–330 of 339 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike in sane countries where the government has either an independent provider (like Australia's NBN) or mandates the previous monopoly to open up their lines to competition (like UK's BT's Openreach or Japan's NTT), there is no equivalent concept in the US. For calls, sure, there is a concept of an incumbent local exchange carrier, but there's no such thing as an ILEC for internet services.

So if you have a DSL connection, it's tied to a single provider that owns the cable? That would indeed make independent contract quite pointless as changing providers would mean adding new cables. We have mandated infrastructure sharing both for fixed and wireless networks so the competition is pretty good with virtual operators almost always being cheaper than the brand name owning the infra.

> That would indeed make independent contract quite pointless as changing providers would mean adding new cables.

... if you even have the choice. Many Americans are only served by a single provider, and this isn't the "too rural" excuse but also with many metropolitan areas. There are exceptions, such as with Utopia Fiber (https://www.utopiafiber.com/) in metropolitan parts of Utah, but this isn't the case even in California, New York or Texas.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#322
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

T-Mobile continues to quietly make available their "CellSpot" femtocell for a US$25 deposit, which is good because it's the only way we would have actual cell service here in a rural part of New Mexico. It is doubly good because whatever server T-Mobile uses for their wifi calling service(s) is the biggest dumpster fire in their entire business.

I get fantastic wifi calling service with TMO. Maybe your home internet has latency issues?

Non-TMO VOIP and video calling works like a charm. By contrast, TMO Wifi calling can't deal with MMS SMS, drops calls and generally is flaky as shit. The cellspot makes all of that work just fine, and is better than driving 2 miles to get to a reception point.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#323
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trouble is, as far as I can tell, at 5G frequencies you need micro stations all over the place. If your suburban street has 10 houses and needs 5 stations (with fiber runs to each) to offer mmWave to everyone, it’s basically just the same thing as home broadband yet more expensive.

At mmWave 5G frequencies. 5G also runs on 4G frequencies with the same propagation as 4G.

In something of a paradoxical curse, operating on 4G frequencies mean you share spectrum with a much larger land area, limiting possible bandwidth. You aren’t going to serve 1gbps of home internet to every house in reach.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#324
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What make and model is your phone? Visible is a deprioritized version of Verizon's cellular network, so when your on a busy tower you will see slower speeds than postpaid Verizon Wireless customers. Verizon also happens to have the slowest network over the last few years since they have the most customers using it (nearly 130 million users) and smaller spectrum holdings than the other two major cellular networks. Ver…

Thanks for the info. I'm on a Pixel 7. Honestly I'd like to try disabling 5G but haven't been able to find a way yet.

They added it! It was not possible when the phone was released, but one of the updates (December maybe?) added a toggle button in settings.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#325
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phones seem to optimize for the fastest network instead of network quality. At least on Android it's possible to manually override and select a network through the hidden settings menu accessible through the phone dialler. Just hit # #4636# # and you're in.

Can you explain more provide a provide a link. This is the bane of my existence. My phone has two towers in range, one with essentially no signal and another one with four bars and it prefers the low signal Tower. It also prefers my home Wi-Fi even if I am taking a walk around the block. It is infuriating that I have a 50/50 chance of resolving a website like Hacker News with a flagship smartphone in the Bay Area

Yeah I have this issue with WiFi as well, every time I'm leaving my house I pull out my phone as I'm walking down the street to play music but I have to wait for the one bar of WiFi to disconnect

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#326
post #279
post #50

It wouldn't be so bad if phones were better at switching to the best available signal, they they could use the efficient 5G connection when it's available, but fall back to 4G when the 5G is blocked by a building or something (which I gather is more common due to the high frequencies used in 5G). But they seem to insist on connecting to a crappy 5G signal even if an excellent 4G signal is available. Same with 3G, whi…

Unfortunately "switching to best available signal" is a really hard problem. More so for a device in motion and on really short waves like Ghz frequencies. I always get annoyed when people nag around about WIFI - because they cannot understand how many things happen in radio communication even if you sit behind the laptop and you have router in other room and you have 10 neighbors having their laptops/routers also ru…

I thought that might be the case, but if higher frequency 5G signals are susceptible to small black spots due to buildings etc what's the solution? Presumably they aren't going to deploy enough 'microcells' to cover every place that the cell towers can't reach, so are we stuck with more dead zones if we use 5G?

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#327
post #50

It wouldn't be so bad if phones were better at switching to the best available signal, they they could use the efficient 5G connection when it's available, but fall back to 4G when the 5G is blocked by a building or something (which I gather is more common due to the high frequencies used in 5G). But they seem to insist on connecting to a crappy 5G signal even if an excellent 4G signal is available. Same with 3G, whi…

Side note: I have the same rant for laptops, wifi and 5ghz/2.4Ghz. If a network is on both most clients will just prefer the 5ghz no matter the signal quality/packet loss. As a user I'd rather have a working slightly slower connection than a broken faster* one. *Not actually faster due to packet retransmission time from packet loss

Even on 2.4GHz the internet connection is usually the limiting factor anyway, unless you're on a high speed network with a lot of congestion.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#328
post #50

It wouldn't be so bad if phones were better at switching to the best available signal, they they could use the efficient 5G connection when it's available, but fall back to 4G when the 5G is blocked by a building or something (which I gather is more common due to the high frequencies used in 5G). But they seem to insist on connecting to a crappy 5G signal even if an excellent 4G signal is available. Same with 3G, whi…

I have an iPhone 13 Pro Max here in Taiwan. If my 5g goes to 4 bars it switches to 4g. Is that what you mean?

Yes, please share your secrets with us!

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#329
post #254

Having the 5G logo on your phone doesnt necessarily mean your phone is speaking 5G. It's...complicated. - Most US operators do not have ubiquitous 5G radio coverage, so, they do what is called 5G NSA where your traffic ultimately ends up veing processed by the 4G core infrastructure that they have. Which is already overloaded and a bit creaky. - Some operators can do real 5G, "5G SA", where the whole flow end to end…

Here in the US I think the killer app is breaking the local cable company’s monopoly on providing high speed internet to the home.

Except what's the point? You're just ditching one terrible communications megacorp for another.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in the developing world but I'd imagine most of the developed world got rid of wired internet and replaced it with fibre years ago.

Outside cities, the network situation is pretty bad. I am in an affluent suburb and my only option is 4mb/200k. No that is not a typo. Broadband coverage is still pretty spotty in the usa.

Wow, we have fibre to about 90% of the population and ripped out copper a few years ago. In rural areas there is government subsidised 4g internet and in the most rural it's government subsidised satellite.

I was in Korea for work and it seemed the same there, I was even in eastern Europe visiting family and it was a pretty similar story. So I figured it was pretty universal. Although I know that Australia isn't in a good space with broadband simply because of politics and companies not wanting to work together, I'd assumed they were an outlier

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