Name and shame.
Ask HN: Co-founder wants me to leave but won't entertain a buy out offer
321–330 of 435 posts
Re: Ask HN: Co-founder wants me to leave but won't entertain a buy out offer
#322Hey. As a former lawyer, I'm going to echo the many comments in this thread to consult a lawyer. If you find a good one with relevant experience, it should only take a few hours at most to properly understand the exact situation you are in and know your options. Your rights could vary drastically based on the specifics of the company and the employment/equity agreements you entered into, in addition to where you and…
> 4yr reverse vesting with 1yr cliff.' is not standard in the same way it is for other early employees
yes but -- have spoken to founders raising large rounds pre-revenue who do have this deal. Their stock is the same as employee stock.
Re: Ask HN: Co-founder wants me to leave but won't entertain a buy out offer
#323It sounds like you own 40% of something fairly valuable and now that it's 11 months into your contract other founder who needed your help is getting greedy and trying to push you out before you are owed anything. You said it yourself, you've grown hugely, you're dominating SEO since you joined, and built loads of products. This is your 'partner' getting greedy after you've done a lot of hard work. It wouldn't have ha…
Yeah - I don't see how people can tell them to just give up. Go scorched earth - what do you have to lose? Know the other guy is hostile and don't trust them to do the right thing. Consider your options outside of that and talk it over with the other investor. If you're the technical cofounder here you're probably in a stronger position to negotiate. If you can get the other investor to see what's happening here (you…
People keep saying this person has nothing to lose, but that's obviously not true. I think comments like these are mostly based on we, as a "technical cofounder" cheering section, want to see happen in the world. What's important about that is that the outcome for this particular person is an externality to us. If the whole company blows up and all equity is worth zero, that's great for the cheering section, even if it's obviously worse for the technical cofounder.
Re: Ask HN: Co-founder wants me to leave but won't entertain a buy out offer
#324One idea would be to buy out the investor. I read in one of the comments that you do have some cash to spend. If you can work out a reasonable deal with the investor you would no longer have a neutral party doing nothing, you'd own 50%, and be able to set the terms.
Re: Ask HN: Co-founder wants me to leave but won't entertain a buy out offer
#325Lots of advice but none seems to have a basis in law and how this will play out in reality.
You have an employment contract and rights. Your co-founder cannot fire you without cause (in most legal systems). Continue working and fulfilling your duties. Document everything and all conversions with dates and times.
It's unlikely you can be forcibly removed as your co-operation will be required to ensure the product continues to operate. If you are forced out you'll have to present evidence to a court or employment tribunal so proceed with this in mind.
You should start off with negotiating for your full 40% share, but accept 20%. Reverse vesting a non-issue if you are unlawfully terminated.
However I suspect there is more going on here as very unusual to see this kind of dispute (smoke) without cause (fire).
Re: Ask HN: Co-founder wants me to leave but won't entertain a buy out offer
#326How long do you think the company will survive without you? Act accordingly.
The ceo is trying to get someone in at a lower cost to take-over your work. Do you think it will work before the site crashes or a hard bug arises?
Inform the investor and take the money out, be honest to him. He will not like this.
He will wait to invest again ( or inform other investors), untill the CEO has proven he can do it, which he probably won't.
Ask the cofounder to take on a loan if that's possible ( perhaps less than the equity), he thinks you are disposable.
Get out and don't help out. Have the same contract with you as you do now, but take 10% of his equity, if you think it's going to fail.
Don't fix anything untill he signed, don't create a bug before you leave.
It's a normal thinking pattern of narcissists and it ressembles "the expert beginners" POV.
There are more opportunities, don't try to spend a lot of time on it anymore.
Ps. This will probably go to court, if it's worth it.
Re: Ask HN: Co-founder wants me to leave but won't entertain a buy out offer
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah - I don't see how people can tell them to just give up. Go scorched earth - what do you have to lose? Know the other guy is hostile and don't trust them to do the right thing. Consider your options outside of that and talk it over with the other investor. If you're the technical cofounder here you're probably in a stronger position to negotiate. If you can get the other investor to see what's happening here (you…
This advice will almost certainly result in no deal and leave all parties worse off. Instead, I would have an open, honest conversation, listen from a place of empathy and generosity and seek a compromise. The truth is, unless your cofounder has the right to terminate your employment, then continue working and try to create as much harmony as possible. Co-founder disputes are awful and usually result in the death of…
I'm all for pragmatism and cooperation, but it sounded like the OP already tried that and the current state is the result. Yes, start with what you're suggesting but don't just accept getting used.
Who's at fault matters here, if the cofounder is truly acting in the way suggested and is not willing to compromise then it's critical to get the other investor to see what they're doing. If that leads to the cofounder blowing up and the death of the company happening sooner rather than later so be it.
If it turns out OP is actually not contributing anything then yeah, better to seek some sort of clean exit compromise. The details matter and how much leverage OP has matters. It's impossible to give good advice without knowing that in either direction.
At a minimum the OP should get the one year cliff on exit.
Re: Ask HN: Co-founder wants me to leave but won't entertain a buy out offer
#328This is a fight you don't want to back away from or you will likely regret it for the rest of your life.
But don't fight, let the investor see the other guy as a "fighter" while you stay focused on the company fundamentals.
Re: Ask HN: Co-founder wants me to leave but won't entertain a buy out offer
#329Why does your co-founder want you to leave?
They're not enjoying working on the company together. It's mainly that they don't like or want the stress of working on a startup, and want to run it more as a lifestyle business.
Something smells fishy, if they don't want the stress why would they want to do all the work alone? And there would still be investors bringing some pressure. They also didn't ask you if you agreed to run the business like a "lifestyle business", they directly ask you to leave. That sounds like a made up excuse.
You probably can't work together anymore now, but you both seem to think the business can be profitable, so if you decide to leave you should be compensated for what you built.
Don't rush the decision. You've worked for 11 months, you can take 2 weeks to talk about it and think things over.
Re: Ask HN: Co-founder wants me to leave but won't entertain a buy out offer
#330This reminds me of the person who bought my old house. It has issues. Those were factored into the price. But he kept trying to talk me down further because he had a story in his head of what this house was going to mean for his life and it wasn't turning out to be a deal that was too good to be true (note: banks reject loans for houses that are too good to be true).
On the last back and forth round I offered to meet below the middle and it turned out he wanted me to meet him 3/4 of the way. When you consider the overall price of a house and how many % that is, it seems like a smallish thing to disagree over. But if your equity in the house is low, the house hasn't appreciated much, or both, a few percent could be a good deal of your profit margin, especially if you count in taxes and repairs like a sober investor, instead of the typical magical thinking about houses as investments.
Between us and my realtor we finally convinced ourselves that his dreams were not our problem. I'm not going to sacrifice my future so someone else can go live their best life - particularly when the goal is for them to live that life without me in it. If you're not my child that option isn't even on the table. You selfish, selfish bastard.
(We called his bluff, he bought the house anyway.)