Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#321

Post by Mikeb85 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:52 AM UTC

alexk wrote: post #310

Mikeb85 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I've done a lot of jobs, some manual, some not, went to university, all of it. Anything that pays well is easy compared to a job that pays shit. The possibility that a missed shift means missing rent and potentially being homeless is far more stressful than any amount of mental 'abuse' or physical strain.

I did not mean to compare different level of hardships people can face. What I mean is that when someone feels pain and suffering they should look for a change whenever it is possible, regardless of the outside perception of their position. Do you agree?

Sure, whenever possible. I don't agree with abusive workplaces. But from my personal perspective, there's a certain amount of shit I'm willing to take and it's based on how much I get paid.

If the pay's the same, I'll take a happier environment 10/10 times.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#322

Post by systematical » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:53 AM UTC

rjplatte wrote: post #100

I'm the sole developer working on my current project, which is overhauling a massive DOS era application, as well as overhauling an early 2000s era CRM/business management tool, that almost all of our work happens through. Did I mention that the DOS application is a HIPAA billing application that must meet all HIPAA guidelines as well as write EDI X12 billing files? I'm very junior, been coding for ~5 years, 3 profes…

I worked for a "CTO" who didn't allow us to use version control either. This was from 2007-2010. I am surprised there is a company TODAY that does this, but I guess I shouldn't be.

The reasoning behind not using VC was that it "caused more problems than it solved." His solution? Code directly on the production server. Yep. You heard me right. Let me say that one more time. Code directly on the production server. We eventually finally won a development server and wrote some bash scripts to deploy from there, but we never actually got SVN or anything. Imagine working on five person development team with no version control.

The guy was a serious joke. The VC issue is just one of many. A serious despot. The guy was hated by all. We laughed at him. Why would I stick that out for three years? I had zero experience when hired. All of us were very green. We were all just putting in our time to hit that magic three years experience checkbox we needed for the next level gig. The CTO was more concerned with appearing to have a large department and having developers working on lots of different things, than actual quality. We wrote some pretty terrible code back in those days and we did a lot of it on a production server during business hours.

We all left at or around the three-year mark. Month by month the "CTO" lost developers faster than he could replace them. The "CTO" was eventually fired and we laughed from afar.

You are being taken advantage of like I was when I first started. You are cheap labor. Your CEO doesn't care about the product. Your CEO likely doesn't care about your career development. The sooner you leave, the more you will learn and grow. That was my experience.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#323

Post by JetezLeLogin » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:55 AM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #193

JetezLeLogin wrote: post #118

It's not hell on earth but I think about "oh my god dude get another job!" at least once a week. My job is this "hybrid" of 50% software developer, which I want to do, and 50% of, let's just say, flippin' burgers. It's not flipping burgers literally but the metaphor applies pretty well because being a short-order burger chef does take some skill, but it's repetitive, and subject to requests/orders that come in interm…

"they figured hey, what better way for him to find all the pain points and automate them" So, I'm not clear on why you haven't been able to do that? I got to where I hated the developer culture, and got a job that was outside of it, where I had access to nothing except MS Office, and had the epiphany that it's Turing complete, I can do anything!

In a nutshell I'm spending most or all of my time using the tools (keeping up with a queue) not working on them. To work on them I need either permission to fall behind in the queue (probably not an option) or someone else to cover for me. I'll probably pursue that latter option.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#324

Post by lacampbell » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:56 AM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #277

lacampbell wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a CEO even getting involved in an issue on that low a level? Unless these are 'CEOs' of 3 people tech companies, I guess.

OP said they are the sole developer on their project, so it sounds like they are. Gotta love those companies where there are more board members than employees.

I'm not exactly at a fortune 500. I'm one of two developers at my company and it would be hilarious to me if my CEO (who seems like a nice enough guy) even knew what version control was.

Then again, this isn't a tech company.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#325

Post by satvikpendem » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:59 AM UTC

DamnInteresting wrote: post #137

Waterluvian wrote: post #72

I don't want to be fired. I absolutely love my job and the people I work with. But I can just smell that we are about to hit a sticking point with how I don't do on call (it was never mentioned in the interviews or part of my contract) and I don't respond to work after 5pm. If it does come to that sticking point I'm trying to figure out how to be the most assertive and diplomatic. I.e. How do I convey that I badly wa…

In professional settings, when it comes to these kinds of awkward topics, I have found a method that has served me very well: A. Meet with the person who is applying the unwanted pressure (it works best one-on-one, so if more than one person is pressuring, you may need to figure out who is best to speak to). B. Frame your concern as asking for advice. For example, "I'm struggling with how to handle this on-call thing…

This approach was coined as "forced empathy"[0] by Chris Voss, author of the book on negotiating Never Split the Difference[1]. I would highly recommend reading it. Blackswan LTD is the consulting group he made based on his experiences, also mentioned in the book.

[0] https://blog.blackswanltd.com/the-edge/the-1-tactic-for-nego...

[1] https://info.blackswanltd.com/never-split-the-difference

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#326

Post by seizethecheese » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:01 AM UTC

hamiltont wrote: post #314

seizethecheese wrote: post #267

I sure hope this format doesn't take off. Having worked as a dishwasher, line cook, pool manager, business analyst, software engineer, and startup founder, I have to say software engineer was, by far, the most coddled job. How about this: I'm a line cook, and I can't afford to be fired. I make minimum wage, and burn or cut myself badly at least once per week. I'm not allowed to take the day off and have to work throu…

Contrasting point - I dislike the thought that folks who've "got it good" should just stay quiet and never complain because they are much better off than others. To me, this is immoral and ineffective. Everyone in a shitty position has a right to speak up. You're absolutely right that some people cannot exercise that right - they can't risk losing what they have. That is unfair to every single person in that situatio…

I don't believe developers have no right to complain.

I only hope these types of threads don't become a habit. It promotes a mentality of negativity, in my opinion. It's not constructive for the industry, I don't think.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#327

Post by misterdoubt » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:02 AM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #181

reificator wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's are the arguments against version control here (if any)? * I don't understand it * You're overcomplicating things * We're not using any of that free shit here * It doesn't say Microsoft or IBM * The last guy we hired that tried to use it was smarter than I was so anyone else who tries is a threat to my leadership. (because everyone knows you can only manage people who have a strict subset of your own knowled…

I'm not sure what the answer is for version control, but I refuse to accept it's Git. I don't understand how it became so popular - did nobody say "wait, there might be a reason why Linus is known for cloning an OS and not coming up with a brilliant design for one from scratch?"

OK.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#328

Post by mdholloway » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:03 AM UTC

ctoinhiding wrote: post #105

I am an acquired founder working in the bay area. The acquisition made me rich, I'm liquid, and I love my product and my team. Everyone did really well in the acquisition. The acquirer means well, but as a public company there is little intellectual honesty and projects are going off the cliff while my fellow executives not sharing the truth of how bad things are going and asking for help from one another for the goo…

If I may, I get the strong sense that your hesitation isn't really about the unvested $$.

Can you tell us more about the nonprofit you'd like to start?

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#329

Post by toop43 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:06 AM UTC

maximente wrote: post #221

toop43 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sick of people in this industry making you feel you're not smart enough, that you're not enough no matter how many times you prove yourself in past work. Dealing with this in the heavy right now. I've built a lot in my 10 years as a programmer. Infinitely, and automatically scaled application server based on load. Hasn't crashed or had a single downtime ever since release. I've built mobile applications 100% myself…

i'm going to be honest with you - if you wrote an app that has never crashed or had a single downtime yet is infinitely/auto scalable based on load, it is either extremely simple, you are a legitimate genius, or you exaggerated. there is just so much that can go wrong there that i'm skeptical, ergo i'm skeptical of other things you wrote. however, if what you said is generally true, then it's obvious you have some sk…

I've thought about consulting before, and my wife actually thinks it's the "right" thing for me (given my recent anger/frustration over the "online assessments" aka algorithm study).

The problem is I'm just not onboard with all the struggles that come with having to find clients, maintain clients, etc. I appreciate (and value) the security and consistency that comes from more-or-less knowing you will have a paycheck next week.

My skillset also lends well (I think?) to a technical manager, or even CTO position at a SMALL company. I certainly know of some great tools, how to glue them all together, and how to do so really quickly. Yet how one makes the jump from "Senior Software Engineer" to fucking CTO is beyond me. I'm not even sure where one would search for CTO jobs. And I'm 32 so, not exactly young but, not quite what you think of when you think of upper management...

The point is - I get your point. Maybe I shouldn't be killing myself with these algorithms. Maybe I should lean into things I'm better at and market myself, gain clients, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#330

Post by jl2718 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:07 AM UTC

seizethecheese wrote: post #267

I sure hope this format doesn't take off. Having worked as a dishwasher, line cook, pool manager, business analyst, software engineer, and startup founder, I have to say software engineer was, by far, the most coddled job. How about this: I'm a line cook, and I can't afford to be fired. I make minimum wage, and burn or cut myself badly at least once per week. I'm not allowed to take the day off and have to work throu…

Look up the story of Aline Lerner. Consider that, whatever you think about your situation, she was probably thinking similar things, and despite that, she’s always been one of the most interesting people in her class at MIT, even when she was in your job, especially then. And look at you, first post in the most popular thread right now. You have physical hardships, no doubt, but there is an existential interest that you’ve piqued here. Well-paid software engineers may struggle with the banality of irrelevance, boredom and disconnection with their fellow man. I once met a girl on a plane that told me that the most important thing you can know about life is that nobody has it better than you. Nobody. Interestingly, whether it’s true or not, you have nothing to gain by believing otherwise.