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Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

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Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#321

Post by hessp »

- How to understand people and present ideas and opinions to them in a manner that they will respond to positively. Or judge how they will respond to an idea and make an informed decision about whether to present it based on your judgement of both the person and situation.

- Understanding that emotions drive people often much more than logic. And that many people already know this and temper their communication based on the emotions it will provoke. And that participants in a conversation can know this about others and infer more than what is said by them.

The first time I was able to read into a conversation between a few others and see that their (apparently irrational) discussion was really a different form of communication built on top of theory of mind was mindblowing for me.

- The corollary of the above is learning how to use a sense of people / theory of mind to more effectively disagree. Either focusing on not creating a barrier when disagreeing. Or focusing on effectively convincing the other party based on pathos in addition to logos.

I found the following most helpful while learning this:

1. Podcast: Career Tools / Manager Tools.

2. Book: "Secrets to Winning at Office Politics: How to Achieve Your Goals and Increase Your Influence at Work" - Note, she quickly redefines 'winning' as 'benefiting both yourself and the organization'. I thought it sounded slimy at first before I read that.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#322

Post by brigandish »

wccrawford wrote: post #204
jmts wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admitting I'm wrong or that I screwed up ... You would not believe how much smoother everything at work is when you learn to recognize early the signs that you're holding on to a bad opinion, or that you're headed towards a fuckup, and just saying it out loud. Avoiding judgement of those that have screwed up or have done something wrong, and simply working with them to correct it goes hand-in-hand with this. By the t…

Also, forgive them ! I hate it when people hold something against someone forever, even though they've already admitted fault. If they get punished even if they repent, there's no incentive to ever repent again. They might as well just keep doing bad things because there's no difference for them.

One of my favourite maxims is, be hard on the problem, not the person.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#323

Post by kamaal »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

>>How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud?

Simple. You don't. People like frauds. Even though they fall victims over and over again, they just can't help but like them. You are doing nothing wrong in being what they like you to be.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#324

Post by resters »

Some important things to remember when dealing with humans:

- If people under you on the org chart are being friendly with you, laughing at your jokes, etc., it is partly due to their desire to get ahead in their careers.

- Every person is the hero of his/her own personal struggle. This self perception explains a lot of human behavior.

- If you are managing people and you don't think you can fire someone because your own boss would not be supportive, then you will never succeed as a manager in that company. Find a new boss.

- The more a startup becomes successful, the more it will attract Slytherins and the more hostile it will be to Gryffindors and Hufflepuffs. This is not a value judgement about the different houses, just an important reality to keep in mind.

- When hiring, the "weekend test" works very well. Would you want to spend a weekend in the office working alongside this person?

- Be upfront with people about their own personal goals and time horizons. Collaboration can exist when everyone's incentives line up, but that doesn't entail that everyone's incentives will always line up. Being honest about this will make people feel respected.

Trust your gut feelings about people, they are usually right.

Figure out what kind of work culture you want to work in, and do your best to make your job match this culture, or find a new job that is a better match.

Invest in your friendships, and develop habits and hobbies that let you continue to make new friends even once you start to settle down a bit.

Read books like "How to negotiate anything" and "Impro" to better understand the way interpersonal dynamics influence negotiations and the perception of a person's behavior.

If you are a thinker, spend time cultivating the ability to listen to your own feelings and to use your emotions and hunches as valuable input into your more rational decision processes.

Realize that your mind and body are one and that you will be more complete if you treat your body well (food, exercise, sleep).

Leadership is a force, not a title. Regardless of the situation or who is officially in charge, bring leadership to the world wherever you go. This does not mean bossing people around, it can mean many things depending on the context.

edit: not sure why this got downvoted, maybe something I said struck a nerve. I'd be curious to find out what it was rather than just have this downvoted.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#325

Post by mncharity »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

If anyone is having difficulty empathizing with the parent's perspective, perhaps reflect on how often you've heard people dismiss infants and young children with something like vaguely like "all they do is sleep, eat and poop". They're "not interesting". You "can't have a conversation with them". It's like there's a lack of background knowledge or observational skills or available attention or interest or systems skills or something or something else, to perceive someone's awesome cognitive and emotional life struggle to fruitfully engage with the world, and the associated opportunities to learn from them and maybe help out a bit.

Or alternately, perhaps there is some sense in which that "not interesting" reflects a useful metric, and perhaps some folks might then find it useful to apply to one's self? ;) And such application might be mutual, or transient, or topical, or situational, or ... any of the many things that throttle the attention and empathy of people and groups, unavoidably or otherwise.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#326

Post by jdance »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

People want to make social stuff work. It doesnt work, its founded on a crazy foundation of playing a role and escaping who we really are. Real passion in PhD like stuff can pierce such roleplay, which is why it is stimulating. There are other things and contexts where this is possible, but in regular society it is rare. Take responsibility for that you have different needs then most people and find these contexts. For me its a couple of close friends, some zen meditation circles, some carefully selected coworkers in my own business, hacker news sometimes. The world really is asleep, mostly :) Nothing wrong with that per se, but yeah its very very boring to converse with, and it has taken me a long time to find a comfortable place in it.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#327

Post by [deleted] »

NeutralCrane wrote: post #254
lookathrwaway wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

No offense, but I mean this, earnestly: get over yourself. If you talk to a person, and the conversation is dull, they might be a boring person. If most of the people you talk to seem boring, then you are the boring person . You bemoan that you find almost everyone a "paper shell". And yet you are the one who has restricted your opinion of interesting people and topics with a PhD attached to it. You dismiss pursuits…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#328

Post by naasking »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

> Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into.

There is overlap between PhD-level conversations and all of these topics. Off the cuff, if someone talks about kids, you can ask about genetics vs. nurture, what sorts of behaviours the parents have seen at what ages/genders, etc. There's a lot of detailed chemistry in wine making and wine pairing. Sports involve complex game theory. Religion has complex social dynamics and interplay with morality and neurology, etc.

The point being, if you can't find overlap with your interests in any conversation topic, you either need to work on your imagination, or you need to let go of the preconception that there are boring topics with no common ground, which inherently limits your engagement in a conversation.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#329

Post by nick007 »

I’ve really enjoyed using https://www.createcapsule.com/ for this. Has been helpful with everything from practicing better CBT, to relationship communication in both personal and professional settings.

They do an amazing job of condensing down a lot of material into very succinct and digestible lessons (aka missions). Everything is also referenced so if you want to deep dive into a specific topic you can.

The whole course is short enough to finish in an afternoon, or can also be broken down in 20 minute slots.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#330

Post by wesammikhail »

MiroF wrote: post #302
wesammikhail wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how this is helpful to the parent comment. > If you talk to a person, and the conversation is dull, they might be a boring person. If most of the people you talk to seem boring, then you are the boring person. And I don´t really understand how you can come to that conclusion. That´s like 2+2 = duck In fact, > have limited relevant context outside your very limited definition of what is interesting If the per…

> Some people are not interested in those pursuits and they are, in comparison, very "pedestrian" in terms of complexity. Now I enjoy all things related to food for example, but I would stab myself in the ears if I had to talk to people about their eating habits for more than 30 seconds once every 13 years. There's no depth or complexity to non-PhD-esque pursuits and interests? I moved from Reddit to HN because comme…

I disagree with the PhD statement made by the original poster. I am a college-dropout and dont think that PhD means jack shit. I interpreted it as "highly specialized knowledge" rather than a piece of paper. if the original author meant the actual academic pursuit then he is just whacked in the head!
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