Loved that story in the nytimes. Keep up the good work. I think you're on to something here.
Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
321–330 of 642 posts
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seeing a manager go this path, and seeing his productivity plummet, I'm pretty sure the productivity boost is merely perceived. There was a story on HN with people trying to microdose on LSD, and the alleged benefits - long story short, when they asked peers about their performance, they noticed they're more distracted and not more productive, while those doing the microdosing thought they're on a super productive tr…
Every study I've seen of Adderall (and amphetamine analogues like bupropion) says that it really does improve focus and productivity, even in non-ADHD users. There are two big hurdles, granted (apart from side effects). One is how long-term toleration works - users report continued efficacy, while objective tests seem to suggest decreased sensitivity. Two is how amphetamines mix with intelligence; normal-IQ users app…
> But if someone is showing up with "brain fog" and underperforming while feeling skilled, that really sounds like something else is up.
One of the things that sustained stimulant abuse contributes to is sleep deprivation and the disturbance of sleep patterns. "Brain fog" - confusion, problems concentrating, memory problems, are all symptoms of sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation experiments have also consistently produced psychotic symptoms (hallucinations, paranoia, disturbed/unusual thinking - the person undergoing the psychosis of course thinks they are doing fine) - the earliest experiment I am aware of being Randy Gardner's[1] in 1964. "Stimulant psychosis" is supposed to be one of the effects of amphetamine abuse; I think the psychosis is likely due to the sleep deprivation involved in multi-day binges.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Gardner_(record_holder)
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#323I'm 34 years old, I've programmed professionally for 12 years, and I discovered adderall 4 years ago. The timing of this couldn't have been more perfect as that's also right when I landed a role as the sole/lead developer for a profitable internet SaaS company. A lot of work to be done and nothing but a wide open greenfield to start tearing through. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the effects that addera…
> cause you to do things that aren't necessarily characteristic of your personality
Would you mind giving details if it's a throwaway ? My mind went straight to sexual assault of some sort reading this.
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#324I've worked in SV for the last 3 years at one of the top 5 tech companies, and I haven't seen much drug use, personally. I would say that there's a significant percentage that have/had medical marijuana cards and would either smoke or partake in edibles, but marijuana use is the only drug I've seen first-hand. I haven't even heard of anyone doing other drugs here, though I'm sure it happens.
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a no such thing as a free lunch theory, but for drugs There's some reason to believe this is literally true - and true in the same sense as the economic rule! In this context, it's been nicknamed the Algernon argument. Gwern (of course) has the canonical writeup.[1] The short version is: "if some chemical change could make us smarter, why wouldn't it already been in place?" Or, framed differently, "why would the br…
Could it be that one reason we use chemicals to "enhance" our brains is because we are living in ways we aren't intended to live? Human beings aren't made to sit in front of a screen for 16 hours a day. We probably shouldn't be as isolated as we can get, we shouldn't be living the way we live (in crowded cities, say, disconnected from family or community, doing one thing--coding, for example--for 10 hours at a time,…
I instinctively like these arguments but I think we should be careful about indulging them. A big part of the human animals biological advantage is just how damn versatile it is. The range of diets, climates, and lifestyles which we tolerate is vast, compared to other animals. Different permutations may produce different outcomes in terms of happiness, health/longevity, and so on, but I doubt that you could find some particular permutation that is "the right one."
There is one version of this idea that I like though, which is that I doubt that we're built for 8+ hours a day of intense abstract reasoning, which seems to be what the modern information economy demands of those aspiring to a middle class or better existence. The vast bulk of humanity did not earn their daily bread this way for most of human history, so I don't think our brains are adapted for "abstract reasoning above all else."
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think that the pot is countering any depression or down feelings that may come from being isolated for so long each day? That sounds really hard, even if you really like the work.
A somewhat odd reoccurring conversation we all have is discussing our dislike of long periods of not being stoned. I personally feel I get naively optimistic, and being stoned make me more critical. I am more easy going (too easy going?) when completely sober, and tend towards obsessive creative introspection when high. It is not a rare topic, the discussion of our long term heavy use, for those of us that are more h…
Do you all discuss the heavy use because you're concerned about the toll it could take on your lungs, in the same way you might be concerned if it was tobacco? or is it more than that? (also I can't believe you can run marathons and smoke that much!)
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
This sounds kind of in line with the theory that drugs are kind of a zero-sum game. You got a lot of speed earlier on and achieved a ton, but then paid for it later on. Kind of like a, "no such thing as a free lunch" economic theory, but for drugs! Not to knock you or your methods, just an observation.
> a no such thing as a free lunch theory, but for drugs There's some reason to believe this is literally true - and true in the same sense as the economic rule! In this context, it's been nicknamed the Algernon argument. Gwern (of course) has the canonical writeup.[1] The short version is: "if some chemical change could make us smarter, why wouldn't it already been in place?" Or, framed differently, "why would the br…
> "why would the brain evolve to benefit from a chemical it doesn't normally have?"
That's the thing, that's not how it works
The brain didn't evolve to be affected by substances unknown to it, it's plants that evolved substances that have CNS effects. (Though the body did evolve to depend on a lot of external substances - be that calorie and protein sources or vitamins)
Nicotine is literally a pesticide (and yes, people do use it as such in some occasions). Not sure how other substances evolved though (I think caffeine made the coffee seeds travel further)
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#328I am open to discussing this in raw detail - contact in my profile. Most programmers, scientists, people in finance and startups I know take a lot of stimulants. I take a lot of stimulants. [Edit - as others have pointed out, there's a strong selection bias going on here. I actively seek out people who I know take stimulants, and we naturally congregate socially based on a bunch of subtle and explicit cues that signa…
Have you had your work evaluated by people who are not drug users, to verify if it actually is better?
And what if you're on a team with someone who doesn't wish to use drugs? Are they just cut out of the big ticket tasks?
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#329I'm 34 years old, I've programmed professionally for 12 years, and I discovered adderall 4 years ago. The timing of this couldn't have been more perfect as that's also right when I landed a role as the sole/lead developer for a profitable internet SaaS company. A lot of work to be done and nothing but a wide open greenfield to start tearing through. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the effects that addera…
> cause you to do things that aren't necessarily characteristic of your personality Would you mind giving details if it's a throwaway ? My mind went straight to sexual assault of some sort reading this.
Mix with alcohol and impulse control is completely out the window. It never went to sexual assault (at least not for me) but it certainly makes you open to philandering behavior. It even normalizes it after a while.
I felt like I adopted more risk prone behavior in general. I felt like I was routinely redlining my brain and my health. Why go to bed early for tomorrow morning's meeting when I can pop an adderall before the meeting and feel fine?
Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a fallacy. There are many things we can accomplish through medicine, or technology more generally, that evolution never could. There are reasons other than it being a net disadvantage that evolution may not have produced something; for example, a particular chemical may not have an easy and cost-effective way to be created in the body (particularly when food was much harder to come by), but be easy enough for…
Your argument doesn't make sense to me. If the chemical is harder to synthesize, then the receptors could be more sensitive, or bind longer. Why would our bodies evolve to use a messenger molecule that was so prohibitively expensive to make that we couldn't make enough of it? These drugs are just changing the balances of existing pathways in our brains. They aren't creating new pathways. Either they are causing a sub…
A net benefit is when we can synthesize drugs to allow us to adapt to externalities, which produce fewer side effects than benefits. Vaccines are a net positive in the presence of Polio. It could be argued that stimulants are a net positive in the presence of having to stare at a glowing rectangle and think in abstractions all day.