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Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

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Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#311
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Marketing is a legitimate business reason. Pervasive targeted marketing is not a legitimate business reason.

its legitimate. distasteful but legitimate.

The word you're looking for is "legal".

It's legal. It's illegitimate but legal.

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, though this is an excellent story, this is just an example of a bias known as "frequency illusion". It happens with a lot of things, like seeing the clock at 11:11 more than you do at 11:09. Or seeing lots of your make/model car but being blind to the hundred of other variants on the road. How many times have you opened up your laptop and not seen a Facebook add for something you just did, or something…

I understand you have used Occam's razor to come to this conclusion. And its a perfectly valid point. But, this particular story has been repeated so many times around me that I am genuinely suspicious. But alas, the only way to know would be to look at the code. And even then we might not understand because its a blackbox type system which is ill understood by even its designers.

> But, this particular story has been repeated so many times around me that I am genuinely suspicious

So, one meta-step up in abstraction? People "notice" these these things which they talk about and now you're especially sensitive to hearing them?

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand you have used Occam's razor to come to this conclusion. And its a perfectly valid point. But, this particular story has been repeated so many times around me that I am genuinely suspicious. But alas, the only way to know would be to look at the code. And even then we might not understand because its a blackbox type system which is ill understood by even its designers.

How is it that no such scandal has been uncovered? Surely by now some hacker would have been able to prove that a phone is recording, sending to server, processing, and returning relevant ad. Or surely someone would have come forward or whistle blown by now. So I'll quote Hitchen's razor for you: "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

Many have tried. Steve Gibson (of GRC fame) did some wiresharking around one of his Amazon devices and found no abnormal networking traffic when he was talking to it, vs not.

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, though this is an excellent story, this is just an example of a bias known as "frequency illusion". It happens with a lot of things, like seeing the clock at 11:11 more than you do at 11:09. Or seeing lots of your make/model car but being blind to the hundred of other variants on the road. How many times have you opened up your laptop and not seen a Facebook add for something you just did, or something…

Most people don’t see completely irrelevant Facebook ads. Frankly, Facebook and their proxies always speak in meaningless nonsense about everything. If you asked Zuck if he ate kittens, you’d get some reply about facebooks mission and why cats are important. For some mysterious reason, all explanations for the “Facebook is listening” phenomenon are uniquely cogent, clear and dismissive. Personally, I have zero doubt…

> Most people don’t see completely irrelevant Facebook ads.

Most people don't NOTICE the ones that are, either.

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, though this is an excellent story, this is just an example of a bias known as "frequency illusion". It happens with a lot of things, like seeing the clock at 11:11 more than you do at 11:09. Or seeing lots of your make/model car but being blind to the hundred of other variants on the road. How many times have you opened up your laptop and not seen a Facebook add for something you just did, or something…

No it's not. There has been more than one instance when me or friends talked about topics and a day later we get weird ads for it on Instagram. Adtech is creepy and dystopian.

As what % of ads that are unrelated to anything they talked about?

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#316

I see Voltaren ads a lot and I mean really a ton since about two or three months. I purge my browser sessions daily and I notice that they reliably come after watching fitness videos (Training Pal and similar). I guess they target people with sports injuries.

I'm also getting loads of Voltaren ads on YouTube. Apparently watching retro computing and cooking fucked videos is also linked to sprained ankles. I think Voltaren is just spending a lot of money and advertising with shotgun accuracy.

The ad copy is funny - Voltaren, not just for accelerated healing, or something to that extent. Everyone I know uses it (or, more likely, cheaper generics) for pain relief, without any particular expectation that the injury will heal faster. So that's the claim they hone in on, as opposed to the thing everybody knows. Standard ad stuff, I'm sure, but it's interesting when you notice it.

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#317
Crazy! I read this HN thread on Safari on my mobile that i never use to access Facebook... a few hours later I’m on Facebook on my laptop in Chrome incognito mode, and one of the first ads that shows up is for Voltaren...how in the world?!?

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#318

Not coincidence. Not "bank purchase history" shared with google- in most cases banks and credit cards don't know item level detail. Lots of ways this data flow could happen, at least in the US. Happy to go through specific details I have seen if you want to share more about this, but two high level points 1. Remember that when you purchase something, the data about the purchase is BOTH yours AND the entity from whom…

In the US, you can’t use personal health information for marketing purposes. If you can prove this link, a lot of very large organizations could potentially be in serious trouble for HIPAA violations. https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/privacy/guidance...

Is there a feasible way to prove this link?

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#319
post #290

Today I browsed Google from my desktop PC about "Gundam" (the japonese anime) for about 1 hour. Pretty niche topic. Then when I was done, I closed all browser tabs, I unlocked my smartphone to check Instagram, and the second ads I get is a Gundam ad. I have no idea how my shadow "desktop" ad profile and shadow "mobile" ad profile matched. I share no accounts between my desktop and my smartphone : - I use different Go…

If you log in different google accounts in private tabs, then any browser fingerprinting would immediately link them.

Also, it's plausible that one of your contacts has your phone number connected with the email of your desktop google account.

Re: Ask HN: I bought Voltaren at the chemist, now Google shows me ads for it. Why?

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can prove this, at least in the USA, this would be a serious violation of HIPAA and severe penalties would apply to entities who disclosed, knowingly received, or paid for personal health information without the patient’s consent and used it for an improper purpose. https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/privacy/guidance...

Lol. No. You can comply with HIPAA and “anonymize” in a manner that a marketer can use to retarget, especially by combining with other data sources. HIPAA protects you against receptionists gossiping and wholesale release of your records. Not much else. When your doctor writes a script, that data is in the hands of a data aggregation company before your pharmacist looks at it. Every pharma rep has a report card for e…

I don’t dispute that aggregated data can be sold, but there is a causal link missing between possessing aggregated purchase data and marketing to a specific person based on certain knowledge that an individual has purchased a particular drug. We need to be able to prove that.
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