Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is anyone else bearish on OpenAI?

news.ycombinator.com

301–310 of 321 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else bearish on OpenAI?

#301
post #36

OpenAI, at least in my day-day workflow for the last 9+ months has so superseded anything that google ever was to me that I'm having a difficult time comparing the two. I've got a monitor dedicated 100% of the time to ChatGPT, and I interact with it non stop during the flow of technical scenarios and troubleshooting situations that flow into me - working in areas that I have the slimmest of backgrounds in, and shutti…

Are you able to give a specific example of a problem it helped you solve? Especially one that you were at a complete blocking point, it provided some solution, and then you were able to continue to expand upon that solution. I keep reading responses like yours, but I haven't seen any specific examples of problems being solved, so it all sounds very abstract. In my interactions with ChatGPT, it felt like just interact…

I can give two personal examples:

1) I needed to display a very high resolution image to a user. I have experience in GIS and imagery, so I knew I should use an image pyramid in some way, and from previous experience assumed I needed some server to cleverly serve the tiles. But I didn't want to implement it myself, and googling 'map server' led to rabbit holes. I consulted with chatGPT, and while it gave me several fake solutions, eventually it suggested using gdal2tiles.py to create the pyramid and then serve it directly with a CDN. This never occurred to me, and is a much better fit to this problem. This saved a LOT of time (on either building my own server or fudging with other solutions) 2) I have a streamlit service, and needed to use some of my infra inside, infra that was written using async-await. Unfortunately, streamlit and asyncio don't play nice together (boo streamlit). I went to chatGPT hoping it would find me a way to make it work anyway, and after trying everything it suggested (which failed), I tried googling myself, and spent several days without a solution. Eventually, I went back to chatGPT and it suggested building a small HTTP service that would serve the results, and access it in streamlit using requests, no async-await required. It's a hacky solution, but significantly faster than reimplementing my streamlit dashboard in another framework or rewriting my infra without async-await. It saved loads of time.

I think you'd agree these aren't junior level issues. ChatGPT definitely didn't solve every problem I came to it with, probably not even most, and even when it did I had to intervene signficantly. I feel the more experienced you are as a developer, the less valuable it is. But when you need to tinker in a field you're not proficient at, or if you need to brainstorm a solution to a tricky problem, it can be a great tool. I understand why many swear by it. It takes a while to learn what sort of issues are good to turn to chatGPT with and which aren't, and also how to phrase those issues

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else bearish on OpenAI?

#304
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you able to give a specific example of a problem it helped you solve? Especially one that you were at a complete blocking point, it provided some solution, and then you were able to continue to expand upon that solution. I keep reading responses like yours, but I haven't seen any specific examples of problems being solved, so it all sounds very abstract. In my interactions with ChatGPT, it felt like just interact…

Random example from today - we have a new product being deployed from a prominent vendor, and they started running into a ton of "out of socket" errors. This product was important to one of our telemetry organizations Q4 OKRs, and they weren't getting traction with the vendor, so they started reaching out internally. I got tagged as someone with a background in networking (though this was clearly not a networking iss…

This might be me being picky, but you mentioned at first:

"I've essentially got 15-20 high-priced world-class consultants in every field that I chose to pull from"

And then here said:

"It's an endlessly enthusiastic savant intern - frequently wrong in hilarious ways"

And those feel very different to me.

The second one feels more similar to my experience This is what I spot with ChatGPT (and advocates of it): in the abstract, it is a genius, but whenever we look at a specific example, it's not like that at all.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else bearish on OpenAI?

#305
post #298
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think the people who haven't found value are people who either don't have strong communication skills hence cannot articulate what they need OR work in very speciailized fields - either way they're clearly the minority seeing how many paying users chatgtp has and how fast they got there

> Yeah I think the people who haven't found value are people who either don't have strong communication skills hence cannot articulate what they need OR work in very speciailized fields This is so weird and seems to be a common thread. You, and others, seem to be saying that ChatGPT is not useful if you're too dumb or too smart. It just seems both tautological and strange. My communication skills are fine. ChatGPT is…

If you really wanted to improve you could show a link to a discussion, then I can give you feedback.

I am switching to teaching / consulting in AI. Chatbots are a part of that. I've reviewed some chatlogs, and some people get abyssimal results, which are entirely explainable and are 100% their fault.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else bearish on OpenAI?

#306
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't have strong communication skills hence cannot articulate Basically this - even in a highly specialised field you would still find value in it if you're providing enough context and describing the problem properly. People don't want to hear that they're poor communicators - it's much easier to blame the tech.

> People don't want to hear that they're poor communicators - it's much easier to blame the tech. It's just hard to even know what to say to this. So you are implying that the problem lies with the human, who holds years of experience in education, problem solving, communication, etc., and not the "AI", which has no experience in any of that and has no real thought processes or problem solving or reasoning abilities?…

Not OP, but yes.

I've had some chatlogs where people are not able to articulate even one clear sentence. They were fine telling me what they want, but not able to type the same sentence

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else bearish on OpenAI?

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the original poster, but here are some examples: - Paste a bunch of log code about which I have no idea. Ask to identify and explain the problem. - Wireshark / dmesg / OpenWrt configuration pasting, ask to fix the problem. For instance, I fixed a Wi-Fi issue in a heterogeneous setup, which turned out to be caused by a stray DHCPv6 server. - Paste C code, along with an error log, and ask to fix the problem. - Past…

> Keep in mind that ChatGPT has been seriously and intentionally downgraded since March I found it getting worse for a bit but lately it's been really good. I would say it's being constantly updated, not necessarily getting worse.

It can't solve problems it was able to solve before.

It's not able to output complete code.

It always adds comments, even when I ask it not to.

It doesn't follow instructions in general.

In complex issues it has less "memory", that is it's not able to observe multiple constraints at the same time. The limit was much higher before.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else bearish on OpenAI?

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the original poster, but here are some examples: - Paste a bunch of log code about which I have no idea. Ask to identify and explain the problem. - Wireshark / dmesg / OpenWrt configuration pasting, ask to fix the problem. For instance, I fixed a Wi-Fi issue in a heterogeneous setup, which turned out to be caused by a stray DHCPv6 server. - Paste C code, along with an error log, and ask to fix the problem. - Past…

> This debate frequently leaves me wondering if I'm encountering a coordinated effort by bots. Stay classy. The rest of your comment would have been much better without this ad hominem.

It wasn't meant ad hominem, I am really wondering. I feel in a bubble.

I once spent an hour researching the responses on reddit and hackernews. Turned out if these profiles are fake, then they are really good. F.e. age is >5 years, they argue about sport teams and seem really human.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else bearish on OpenAI?

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the original poster, but here are some examples: - Paste a bunch of log code about which I have no idea. Ask to identify and explain the problem. - Wireshark / dmesg / OpenWrt configuration pasting, ask to fix the problem. For instance, I fixed a Wi-Fi issue in a heterogeneous setup, which turned out to be caused by a stray DHCPv6 server. - Paste C code, along with an error log, and ask to fix the problem. - Past…

Can you paste a transcript for any of those examples here? I’m genuinely curious. I’ve never seen a single actual transcript from anyone talking about how they use ChatGPT all the time for programming work and it’s great.

Sorry I don't have anything un-confidential right now.

Just take any code which is EDIT: I had some deprecation warnings in python recently, which it quickly fixed. Googled that on a different computer and found https://stackoverflow.com/questions/76689364/how-to-fix-depr...

This is the transcript. Forgive my dumb last question, I didn't understand the code, what it did worked well.

---

User: Please fix the deprecation warning on this code: for i in range(0,3): df.loc[df['date'] ChatGPT: The code you've provided updates the 'date' column in a DataFrame df by adding one year to each date that is earlier than June 1, 2023. However, this operation is performed multiple times due to the loop, which is likely not intended and could be the source of inefficiency or unexpected results.

To fix this, you should update the dates in a vectorized way without using a loop. Here's the corrected code:

  import pandas as pd
  # Sample DataFrame creation for demonstration (you should use your own DataFrame 'df')
  # df = pd.DataFrame({'date': pd.to_datetime(['2022-05-01', '2023-07-01', '2024-08-01'])})

  # Correcting the date manipulation
  df.loc[df['date'] 
User: give me the code in one code block. first the old version, then the improved version. Make sure it's executable on its own

ChatGPT: Certainly! Below is the code block with both the original version and the improved version. The improved version eliminates the unnecessary loop and applies the date modification in a more efficient manner.

  import pandas as pd

  # Original code
  df = pd.DataFrame({'date': pd.to_datetime(['2022-05-01', '2023-07-01', '2024-08-01'])})
  for i in range(0,3):
      df.loc[df['date'] 
User: is it really the same?

Code: >>> import pandas as pd >>> # Original code >>> df = pd.DataFrame({'date': pd.to_datetime(['2022-05-01', '2023-07-01', '2024-08-01'])}) >>> for i in range(0,3): ... df.loc[df['date'] >> # Print the result of the original code >>> print("Original Code Result:") Original Code Result: >>> print(df) date 0 2024-05-01 1 2023-07-01 2 2024-08-01 >>> >>> # Improved code >>> df = pd.DataFrame({'date': pd.to_datetime(['2022-05-01', '2023-07-01', '2024-08-01'])}) >>> df.loc[df['date'] >> >>> # Print the result of the improved code >>> print("\nImproved Code Result:") Improved Code Result: >>> print(df) date 0 2023-05-01 1 2023-07-01 2 2024-08-01

ChatGPT: You are correct. The two code versions do not produce the same result. The original code with the loop increments the date by one year for each iteration of the loop, but only for dates before "2023-06-01". This results in multiple increments for dates that are initially before this threshold.

In contrast, the improved code without the loop increments the date by one year only once, making it more efficient and potentially more aligned with what one might expect logically. However, if the intent of the original code was indeed to increment certain dates multiple times, the "improved" version would not be equivalent.

If the goal is to replicate the logic of the original code but without the deprecation warning and with improved efficiency, we need to understand the exact behavior intended with the loop. If the intent was to increment dates before "2023-06-01" by multiple years based on some condition, the improved version should be adjusted accordingly. ---

---

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else bearish on OpenAI?

#310
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I'm trying to change your mind, but some specific things that LLMs do for me: - Helping to refactor SQL - writing jq commands (I simply cannot) - writing shell code (it happens just infrequently enough that I can't justify spending the time to get good) - brainstorming names or puns. Word association is easier with a second person (or an LLM) - figuring out why my AWS CLI commands aren't doing what I'm expec…

This is just helping out with trivial tasks, which sounds very much in scope of LLMs. The OP was talking about replacing "world class consultants", which I'm very sceptical of.

I've had it craft legal letters in German. Very good content
Post reply on HN