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Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?

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Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?

#301
I wrote ~300 lines of Python in a day and then I passed it to an Okta dev who has spent the last three months trying to replicate it in Okta‘s no code platform with limited success.

At first I was interested in the tool, but seeing how long it’s taken him and his struggles to get things working has convinced me that he probably would have been better served to just learn Python.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?

#302
I like a lot of what’s out there these days. Pega is a good example that reasonably talented people with some training can solve real business problems quickly. But like most other folks here mention it’s usually great to remember the guard rails that help make these tools easy for some will be limiting to others. Maybe one day the Linux kernel devs will be using a drag and drop interface..but I think that day is probably a long way away (not speaking for the Linux kernel devs here obviously just my take)

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?

#303
post #173

I hate it. Some time (not long) ago I was working remotely on some software that was driven by an API on a remote server maintained by some folks in a different country. A long way from me. Cutting a long story short I realised that the lack of control over the server was because they really did not know how it worked, or how to fix it or diagnose issues their server was having. It was a laraval/MS-SQL system built f…

What do you think about "serverless" architecture where everything server related is handled for you and all you have to worry about is code? I'm talking about services such as Azure Functions, AWS lambda, etc..

What little I have heard of it sounds intriguing. But I know very little.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?

#304
post #220
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The ultimate "low code" experience I had was back in the 1990s with Delphi. You drag and drop your form elements, get everything just right. Next you hook up your event handlers and type in a few lines of code to do the actual work. Today I was thinking about Visual Basic 6, which worked more or less the same way. I wonder what similar alternatives we have today? Gambas? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambas

You can do "drag and drop form elements and type up the event handlers" with Visual Studio and C#. The problem is that Microsoft have rather lost their way on GUI frameworks - too many of them and the latest ones are either "to be obsolete" or "not finished yet" (winui3), and winui3 has broken the interactive designer. Theoretically it can be multi-platform https://platform.uno/

WinForms is the spiritual successor to VB6.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?

#305
I know an agency of 5 people absolutely flat out delivering low-code solutions on the MS Power Platform, mostly for government agencies.

The thing is, these solutions probably couldn't be delivered by non-engineers, but these people are able to move extremely quick because of the platform.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?

#306
I ran a no-code startup about 10 years ago for building mobile apps. My experience has been that no-code is empowering... until it isn't. There's always a piece of bespoke functionality where suddenly the environment you're in becomes a trap unless there's a plugin ecosystem that enables you to write your own integrations. Oftentimes building these plugin customizations becomes more difficult than if you'd built the whole thing in-scratch yourself.

Video of the tool i built: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6_NJ8zcm8o

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?

#307
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintainability is always the issue, even for the things made from code. What do you think will happen if the no-code platforms become open source?

Every general no code platform I've worked with has had an order of magnitude (sometimes, multiple) worse maintainability story than code alternatives. And admittedly, maybe I've worked with a series of terrible ones, but I've also worked with a lot of popular ones that big enterprises are adopting. As for open source, I'd say zero percent chance that happens, because no code solves problems developers don't have: (1…

Based on your experience would you be comfortable to list a few of the no-code tools to avoid when taking maintainability into account? Would be useful.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?

#308

I think it's great to see the commoditization of solved problems. On the other hand, I'm not surprised to see developers hating on the idea because our industry has spent decades telling everybody these are difficult problems and they need to hire experts to help solve them.

I had to fix a SharePoint workflow that indefinitely kicked off several workflows, and each workflow kicked off other workflows all being stuck in loops. A single workflow could have thousands of workflows kicking off... Guess who they let make something that simple? Some generic business analyst who left and nobody else knew how to support it. That second last word there is why developers will never go away.

Sure, but there's some kind of survivorship bias there.

For every "app" like that, which grows up and needs support, there are dozens of others that serve out their usefulness and go away, or just live on in obscurity in some person's personal workflow.

And generic business analysts are hardly the only ones who write bad code...

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?

#309
The concept of "no code" has been in existence for much longer than the term "no code" has been in use. For example Excel spreadsheets have existed longer than the term "no code" and these allow people from a non software background to automate some of their tasks, but even now we don't tend to call this "no code". There's very specific connotations with the term, which is why I think at the moment "no code" is typically used as a marketing and sales play. This is something I wrote about in more depth here: https://www.lesinskis.com/whats-the-deal-with-no-code.html

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?

#310

I have been a professional programmer for forty years. In the eighties, there was a no-code desktop relational database application called Helix. I continue to think that it belongs on the same shelf as Excel in the UI hall of fame. Like Excel, people made applications with it. Unlike Excel, it created a server product in the mid-eighties that allowed it to become an IT platform. Small business owners who had hacked…

> These apps are exact replicas of the brain process of the owner that made them without a single structured thought in sight.

To be fair, we've probably all seen applications written by professional software engineers that fit that description..

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