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Ask HN: Do you expect interviewees to “ace” whiteboard coding exercises?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you expect interviewees to “ace” whiteboard coding exercises?

#31

Post by brettlangdon »

TimLeland wrote: post #30

I believe you should be able to use a computer because that's what they will be using day to day. Check out http://fizzbuzzer.com/ . It allows you to send interview challenges to test a candidate.

Neat. I have used a few different tools in the past.

https://code.stypi.com/ - shared code editor in the browser

Just use hangouts (we are using https://appear.in/ now, much better) and have them screenshare with you, this will allow them to use their own editor and setup and make them feel more comfortable.

Re: Ask HN: Do you expect interviewees to “ace” whiteboard coding exercises?

#32

Post by werber »

EliRivers wrote: post #18
IndianAstronaut wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even at my small CRUD software company, there are 8 devs for a company bringing in $14million a year in revenue. That is certainly skirting the million range.

How many secretaries are there? By this reasoning, if there's one secretary, that secretary is worth millions.

good point!

Re: Ask HN: Do you expect interviewees to “ace” whiteboard coding exercises?

#33

Post by smeyer »

time_is_scary wrote: post #22

1. Everyone will say they want to "see how you think" 2. You will not get an offer if you do not get a solution 3. Everyone ever: "White board interviews can be awful, but my company actually does a pretty good a job and I find them useful." edit: for a slightly less snarky comment (and to expand on point 2) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9522400

I've gotten offers before where my answers to at least one of the whiteboard problems looked roughly like "I don't really know how to do this, but I'll see what progress I can make towards a solution" and either didn't result in a full solution or required pretty extensive help from the interviewer to do so. I've also seen offers made to people who didn't really get a good solution to one of the whiteboard problems posed when I was on the interviewing side but still did well in the rest of the interview and displayed good thinking and problem solving skills even in the question(s) they missed.

Re: Ask HN: Do you expect interviewees to “ace” whiteboard coding exercises?

#34

Post by davelnewton »

time_is_scary wrote: post #22

1. Everyone will say they want to "see how you think" 2. You will not get an offer if you do not get a solution 3. Everyone ever: "White board interviews can be awful, but my company actually does a pretty good a job and I find them useful." edit: for a slightly less snarky comment (and to expand on point 2) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9522400

#2 is demonstrably wrong.

Re: Ask HN: Do you expect interviewees to “ace” whiteboard coding exercises?

#35

Post by davelnewton »

strict9 wrote: post #20

I don't understand how whiteboard algorithm challenges with a curveball or brain teasers are any indication of a developer's value add. Why would you not pair program with the candidate, and give them resources that are normally available to software developers? Memories are formed or helped by relationships (see mnemonics) and when you remove all context you're getting only a narrow view. You can "see how they think…

Brain-teasers aren't overly helpful, IMO, unless they're directly related to stuff the company does.

For example, I had an odd one that addressed solution search space, how to short-cut going through the entire space, etc. Definitely a brain-teaser, and not something 99% of developers have likely dealt with--but relevant.

Re: Ask HN: Do you expect interviewees to “ace” whiteboard coding exercises?

#36

Post by davelnewton »

Margh wrote: post #29
soham wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that hope from them is baseless. Truth is, you're competing with candidates who have practiced a lot. They know it, and candidates know it too. I'll re-iterate: Technical interviews are a competition. You cannot go unprepared. Testing your "raw" skill is stupid and a myth. It's as stupid as saying you want to see Usain Bolt (and everyone else) compete without practice. Those days are gone.

What they are describing is putting Usain Bolt at the beginning of an obstacle course and then saying he's not an Olympic level athlete when he trips on a tire.

What you're forgetting is that most developers, as with most athletes, aren't competing at the international level.

Re: Ask HN: Do you expect interviewees to “ace” whiteboard coding exercises?

#37

Post by davelnewton »

EliRivers wrote: post #18
IndianAstronaut wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even at my small CRUD software company, there are 8 devs for a company bringing in $14million a year in revenue. That is certainly skirting the million range.

How many secretaries are there? By this reasoning, if there's one secretary, that secretary is worth millions.

And if they're any good, they probably are.

Re: Ask HN: Do you expect interviewees to “ace” whiteboard coding exercises?

#38

Post by time_is_scary »

davelnewton wrote: post #34
time_is_scary wrote: post #22

1. Everyone will say they want to "see how you think" 2. You will not get an offer if you do not get a solution 3. Everyone ever: "White board interviews can be awful, but my company actually does a pretty good a job and I find them useful." edit: for a slightly less snarky comment (and to expand on point 2) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9522400

#2 is demonstrably wrong.

Of course there will be exceptions, but, given two candidates, the one who did better will get the offer. At big tech companies there is no shortage of people who ace a white-board problem.

Also, if you interview with multiple people for a position (and do multiple white-board problems) you can get an offer without acing all of them.

Re: Ask HN: Do you expect interviewees to “ace” whiteboard coding exercises?

#39

Post by TimLeland »

brettlangdon wrote: post #31
TimLeland wrote: post #30

I believe you should be able to use a computer because that's what they will be using day to day. Check out http://fizzbuzzer.com/ . It allows you to send interview challenges to test a candidate.

Neat. I have used a few different tools in the past. https://code.stypi.com/ - shared code editor in the browser Just use hangouts (we are using https://appear.in/ now, much better) and have them screenshare with you, this will allow them to use their own editor and setup and make them feel more comfortable.

brettlangdon try http://fizzbuzzer.com/ and let me know what you think.

Re: Ask HN: Do you expect interviewees to “ace” whiteboard coding exercises?

#40

Post by davelnewton »

time_is_scary wrote: post #38
davelnewton wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#2 is demonstrably wrong.

Of course there will be exceptions, but, given two candidates, the one who did better will get the offer. At big tech companies there is no shortage of people who ace a white-board problem. Also, if you interview with multiple people for a position (and do multiple white-board problems) you can get an offer without acing all of them.

Well yeah, but that's not what it said. I've had the occasional complete whiteboard disaster (not really my thing) that ended up with offers, including pools where people did bang-up whiteboard work.

There's a lot more at play in any reasonable place than whiteboard performance.

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