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Ask HN: Career trajectory? I'm terrible

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Re: Ask HN: Career trajectory? I'm terrible

#31

Post by DanBC »

hoboon wrote: post #9
czbond wrote: post #2

Dude - we understand. We've been there, just maybe for other reasons. Are you applying for things too far above your pay grade, or too far below? Are you applying using technologies or a background that the companies you apply to aren't interested in? Or are you always making it to an interview and flubbing there? Can you see a pattern? Look for the stopping point - and optimize by focusing only on fixing that one po…

I don't know what my pay grade is, or how to feature the data I get. I do ask for feedback from interviewers; they usually don't response. When they do, I get conflicting answers.

Interviews have to be carefully constructed to avoid a bunch of bias. The interviews you go to probably aren't carefully constructed.

The interviewers just pick someone. They then post-rationalise and say things like "cultural fit". And then, when any other candidate asks the interviewers will post rationalise a reason those candidates didn't get the job. You get conflicting answers because they're all just making it up.

You frame not being sucessful as failure. Sure, it is. It might be useful to reframe things. Getting a job is an iterative process. You apply for jobs. If you don't get replies you tweak your resumé and cover letter until you get responses and requests to interview. You're getting interviews so that already some sucess! Now you just need to tweak your interview technique to get a job.

There are people who can help. There are probably recruiters that can help - although finding a non-scumbag recruiter may be difficult. Perhaps there is someone on HN who can help?

Re: Ask HN: Career trajectory? I'm terrible

#32

Post by imakesnowflakes »

DanBC wrote: post #26
imakesnowflakes wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_%28mood%29 I think we can consider the OP's case as falling under > Depressed mood may not require any professional treatment, and may be a normal reaction to certain life events...

But OP has expressed suicidal ideation and that is always something that requires help. It doesn't matter that it's situational, although that should alter the "treatment" options.

> But OP has expressed suicidal ideation and that is always something that requires help...

He is looking for help from people here. And you are sending him away to a doctor? He ask here, because he think he can find people here who can identify with him, who have faced similar situation and he wants to hear how they came on top of such situations. He is looking for motivation and encouragement from like minded people. But people just shrug off and say "Nah man, you are just depressed, just go see a doctor". I understand that some people are genuinely concerned. But I think they are missing the point. I think OP should be getting more responses like this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9736526..

Re: Ask HN: Career trajectory? I'm terrible

#33

Post by DanBC »

> I feel like eating a bullet would make the world a better place.

Thoughts like this are always a significant cause for concern. If you found a mole that was raised and had changed shape you would see a doctor. If you found a lump on a testicle you would see a doctor. This is similar.

Your treatment options should be a broad package:

1) change the situation

2) give you the tools and skills needed to change the situation

3) support you while you're getting those skils and making those changes

(2) here is not just about your software skills, or your interview skills. It should include some stuff about how to recieve criticism (take what's useful; ignore the rest).

I often push Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. That might be a good idea, but you have some complex interdependant stuff going on and CBT is more effective if you just concentrate on one thing.

There are other therapies that may help, but they're harder to find. DBT is well known and might be useful.

You make several reference to your perception of your programming skill. You describe bug hunting as low skill. Try to frame that as specialist skill, that helps you avoid mistakes in your own code. Do you program in your own time?

Re: Ask HN: Career trajectory? I'm terrible

#34

Post by mcv »

shepik wrote: post #29

This sounds like a depression. Not as a "I'm in a bad mood" depression but as a medically diagnosed illness which has to be treated properly. So please, go visit a doctor.

My thought exactly. Depression is a serious illness that can kill.

It is hard to give advice on the OP's professional situation (do you underestimate your ability? do you need a better way to learn? should you be looking at different talents and try a different career? no idea), but the way OP responds to his situation is very concerning.

If you do suffer from depression or some other psychological condition, it's entirely possible that that's the very thing that's holding you back. Talk to some experts, and deal with that. It might solve a lot of your problems.

Re: Ask HN: Career trajectory? I'm terrible

#35

Post by lewisl9029 »

hoboon wrote: post #11
gargarplex wrote: post #6

Join a developer bootcamp with a guaranteed junior-developer placement program

Did that last year. No bootcamp guarantees placement.

Try something like this?

http://www.appacademy.io/#p-home

JavaScript/Ruby are very employable skills and there's no shortage of places that need them. If you have the time, I'd give it a try since there's nothing to lose (you don't pay them if you don't get a job).

Re: Ask HN: Career trajectory? I'm terrible

#36

Post by mcv »

hoboon wrote: post #14
istvan__ wrote: post #13

I am pretty sure there is something you like to do. Get good at a tiny small particular thing first before you extend your interest to other things. If it helps, I used to be a test engineer who was tasked to run test cases manually. You know what I did? In me spare time I wrote an extremely dumb and simple executor that did my job. Management realized the potential, they let me write a better tool now with their app…

Your story is heartening. I wish it would work for me. Nothing really makes me happy or interested. I could lay in bed all day if I didn't force myself to get out. I think it's great that you didn't have any formal education, and you have gone farther than me, someone with formal education and 'seven years' of experience. > guess what I am trying to say is: - dont give up - expect success over time (1-2 years as a ba…

> Nothing really makes me happy or interested. I could lay in bed all day if I didn't force myself to get out.

This is a sign of depression. Talk to a doctor. It's possible that clinical depression is holding you back. It destroys your motivation and makes it hard to find joy in anything. And it's hard to get better in something that you don't enjoy and aren't really interested in.

> I've been unemployed for a year. I think my career is over. Other, better people can do more.

That sounds like the depression talking. Don't listen to it. Fix the depression (easier said than done, but it can be done), and the rest will get a lot easier.

I've been unemployed for over a year once, and completely wasted that year (I should have done private programming projects, but instead I wasted it gaming and sleeping late), but now my career is doing great.

A close friend had dropped out of programming completely due to RSI, and after many years of not touching a computer, tried to start his own company (selling computer generated puzzles), which failed, but it did get him enough hands on experience to get a regular programming job. His career has lost some time, but is otherwise doing fine.

Another friend went suffered from depression and addiction, went through years of therapy, got his life back on track, and now has an excellent job in programming.

It is possible to get back in the saddle. It's not always easy, and it can mean you have to take care of other problems first, but it can be done. Take hope in that. Get help, get to the root of the problem, fix that, and your career will get easier in time.

Re: Ask HN: Career trajectory? I'm terrible

#37

Post by mcv »

hoboon wrote: post #10
azdle wrote: post #3

First, please go see a doctor. You know how shitty you feel right now? That isn't a normal state of being. I've been there, I really have, I know it feels hopeless right now, but I promise it's not. If you're anything like me you might feel that getting anti-depressants is somehow wrong or cheating, or that you're admitting defeat , but you know what? They are just another tool that you can use to improve your life.…

> That is called learning. I get the tripe of what you mean, but perhaps I fail at failing, then. I don't really learn anything. Everything I do is wrong, I'm told. I wish antidepressents would work. If I could cut out parts of my brain and be better, I would. I just don't get it. Everyone else has done something right or at least better. People say things and everyone else gets it. I've been working for seven years,…

> I've been working for seven years, unemployed for one year. I had a job for a month and they fired me because I didn't have the skills they needed (not sucking, being experienced, nothing tech specific).

So you have held onto a job for 7 years. You can do that again! Being unemployed sucks, but it has happened to most people at some time in their life. Getting fired is not fun, but that too has happened to lots of people. You're not alone.

Re: Ask HN: Career trajectory? I'm terrible

#38

Post by DanBC »

imakesnowflakes wrote: post #32
DanBC wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But OP has expressed suicidal ideation and that is always something that requires help. It doesn't matter that it's situational, although that should alter the "treatment" options.

> But OP has expressed suicidal ideation and that is always something that requires help... He is looking for help from people here. And you are sending him away to a doctor? He ask here, because he think he can find people here who can identify with him, who have faced similar situation and he wants to hear how they came on top of such situations. He is looking for motivation and encouragement from like minded peopl…

I sort of agree with you. OP could be getting useful advice here.

But the suicidal stuff is always a significant sign and must never be ignored.

Re: Ask HN: Career trajectory? I'm terrible

#39

Post by ice303 »

I can relate to what you are feeling. You have to take a couple steps behind, take a deep breath, and start to see things how they really are. There's no evil that will last. You will get over this, I can assure you. make a list of your strengths, of what you are passionate about. Maybe change job, work on something else that might make you happy. Maybe relocate and start over. A good friend of mine, sysadmin for a couple of decades, burn out one day. Left everything and bought a small house on the country and he's producing wine. He's never been happier he said to me. Do some sports, go out, be with friends, talk about what you are feeling. It helps. Take care mate.
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