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Ask HN: Is Meteor.js mature to enough to use it for building big applications?

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Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js mature to enough to use it for building big applications?

#31

I don't know about meteor in particular - but my advice would be to eschew frameworks in favour of libraries, I'm not the first person to suggest this and it's worth using some google-fu to read the differing opinions. Essentially, Common JS + NPM lets people/teams create their own "frameworks" with very little effort whilst also freeing them from the bulk and cruft of a framework that has a limited future; if it has…

I think that depends on exactly what you are doing.

If your application doesn't diverge much from a "standard application" in your framework, then you are probably better off using one. If its going to need a lot of customization then probably libraries are a better way to go.

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js mature to enough to use it for building big applications?

#33
post #9

No. Even pagination still requires 3rd-party plugins. Last time I tried (granted about a year ago) none of the existing plugins were very good (the only reactive one added the new page's items to the table before removing the existing page's items maybe .5 sec later--horrible user experience). Perhaps the plugins are better now, but still it seems like something so fundamental it should be in the core distro; the met…

I personally don't see why pagination should be in core. That's not a necessary thing to have. I would rather have the core developers work on more important things like SQL support or performance optimizations rather than having to worry about a dynamic way to do pagination. There are 3rd party plugins for that reason, so you can still accomplish what you need to without needing everything in core.

Also... you may want to look at it again. A LOT has changed since last year.

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js mature to enough to use it for building big applications?

#34

Yes, I know of tons of applications that have a large code base and use Meteor. Go look at places like ClassCraft, WorkPop, MixMax, FantasyHub, etc. Plenty of teams are scaling both the code base and the app servers to handle thousands of concurrent connections. What is stopping you from trying Meteor, really? Your questions are more focused on the culture of building an app, not about the framework itself.

You forgot one big one: lookback.io ;)

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js mature to enough to use it for building big applications?

#35
post #31

I don't know about meteor in particular - but my advice would be to eschew frameworks in favour of libraries, I'm not the first person to suggest this and it's worth using some google-fu to read the differing opinions. Essentially, Common JS + NPM lets people/teams create their own "frameworks" with very little effort whilst also freeing them from the bulk and cruft of a framework that has a limited future; if it has…

I think that depends on exactly what you are doing. If your application doesn't diverge much from a "standard application" in your framework, then you are probably better off using one. If its going to need a lot of customization then probably libraries are a better way to go.

Except that you underestimate the effort in incorporating the "framework" in your new project. Sure it isn't hard per se, but the steps involved in learning every bit of a process that surrounds the framework kills the excitement at some point or other. Like in rails, learning all the routing, code generators, forms, asset pipelines just makes you quit at some point.

I think things would be much easier if I had "grown" with rails as its features grew, but now, it being a behemoth, I would be pretty much disinterested in going in the effort of learning it just so I can make my shiny new project.

The learning would be much easier, if I get to work on existing codebase but then again, it is a chicken-and-egg problem.

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js mature to enough to use it for building big applications?

#36

Yes, I know of tons of applications that have a large code base and use Meteor. Go look at places like ClassCraft, WorkPop, MixMax, FantasyHub, etc. Plenty of teams are scaling both the code base and the app servers to handle thousands of concurrent connections. What is stopping you from trying Meteor, really? Your questions are more focused on the culture of building an app, not about the framework itself.

Kadira?

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js mature to enough to use it for building big applications?

#37
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed that the MeteorJS ecosystem has a lot of packages that take care of i18n, routing support (iron router), SEO (spiderable), basic forms support (autoform). I agree that there is room for improvement, but I am confident that the team behind MeteorJS will make MeteorJS a success.

No, I didn't. I'm aware of the existance of those. But those , as you say, external packages are lacking any type of official support. And that is just no acceptable for any serious/big project. A project manager will be rofl-ing hearing those words, I'd say.

Almost all the node.js ecosystem consist of external non-official packages. I don't get your point.

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js mature to enough to use it for building big applications?

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken like a true person who spent an hour investigating the platform and then moved on. All of the issues you've pointed out are solved using third-party packaging.

Please see the other replies I made. I'm aware of all those plugins, but I'm concerned about the official support they (don't) receive.

Heh Alex — the Meteor posse has arrived to this thread (I'm a big Meteor fan too!) I'll echo some of the others, that any issues with Meteor being ready for primetime don't have to do with the issues you cited, but more around being unproven to scale at high traffic (also not disproven).

I've been using Meteor since early 2013 on all my web projects, and for me the core team goes to the correct feature depth — there's 4000+ packages on Atomosphere — it'd be really hard to determine how deep they should go pulling things into the core.

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js mature to enough to use it for building big applications?

#39
Been using Meteor for 4 months, and I'm an junior ops guy turned developer. So if I say something that sounds like I don't know what I'm talking about, it's probably because I don't, so take it easy. Having said that, here's my two cents: First and foremost, Meteor is a complete platform for building modern web applications. You get so much out-of-the box functionality that you'll be productive in no time. Also, you will find that your codebase is several times smaller than with other frameworks, because the isomorphic javascript saves you from needing to do a lot of boilerplate and configuration. You also have very convenient ways to organize code, whether through packages or in a /client or /server or /cordova folder, so you'll have an easier time managing your code. So a "big" application is smaller than it would be, and makes for more understandable code.

There are many, many examples of functionality that you get for "free" without further set-up, and in my experience it empowers you, the developer, to build richer, better applications.

I think that the fact that the platform is stable and past 1.0, and the package ecosystem at atmospherejs.com is vibrant and high-quality, the answer is yes you can absolutely build an application with a large code-base. (And, I might add, you may wonder why you ever did it another way.) As for scaling, you're on a non-blocking node architecture, and so you're already doing pretty well. If you can't figure out how to scale it through the community, my understanding is that the folks at Meteor are working on a paid product that will make it dead-simple to scale to your heart's content. I am guessing that by the time you launch your Meteor-built product, there will be ample resources to hold your hand through it.

Re: Ask HN: Is Meteor.js mature to enough to use it for building big applications?

#40
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please see the other replies I made. I'm aware of all those plugins, but I'm concerned about the official support they (don't) receive.

Why does it need to be official?

I guess money and a degree from MIT makes the code look/smell better?
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