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Ask HN: What's the best way for a foreigner to improve English to a great level?

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Re: Ask HN: What's the best way for a foreigner to improve English to a great level?

#31
She wants to focus on speaking and listening in a short time frame, so she needs to do both of those things – exclusively.

Materials: - DVDs of several TV programs with multiple seasons (make them subject relevant if she has a specific subject-matter goal) - Several regular talk radio/podcasts - You. Apparently, you know English. Stop speaking to her in anything but English. Just stop.

Method: - The goal here is to bludgeon the language faculty of your wife's brain with English. It'll feel kinda uncomfortable, but you want to create an experience that so surrounds her with English that the brain is forced to do work it's already good at – that is, figuring out language. - So, every day, listen to talk radio. It creates the same experience as being dropped into a conversation in a foreign country where you don't know the language. She just needs to try to follow the conversation. This has the added benefit of not taking place in a bar or cafe, with a lot of back noise. Encourage her to take note of words that get repeated a lot, to look them up, and to listen again, but don't waste her time with exercises that answer questions about the content, b/c the content is irrelevant. - Next, pick a TV series and start watching. Have your wife choose a character to 'follow'. She is to repeat everything that character says, in as close to the same accent as it was produced. Most TV shows are about 30-60 minutes, so have her do this with a few shows, just make sure the shows feature a few characters that do a lot of talking, so that she get's more practice. - Lastly, go out together, a lot. Meet people. Language exists between people first and foremost, so the best way to build on her practice is in the field. Beforehand, she can prepare the 20 or so important things that she might want to say/talk about, and discuss them with you. Then, take her to an event to meet people and abandon her to fend for herself in a conversation.

All this sounds kinda ego-crushing, but it really is the fastest way to get to a high level of speaking/listening fluency. Think about this, a language class will be populated with other people learning English, whereas a bar will be filled with chatty people. A class will have her sitting, passively absorbing a lesson with occasional practice, whereas the methods described above involve active processes. Finally, if you cease to provide an Italian-language safe zone, her brain will naturally begin to adjust. It's an uncomfortable process, but I achieved a high degree of spoken/listening fluency with both German and Turkish this way, as a native English speaker. Compared to two years of classroom Arabic, and I can hardly say my name.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Re: Ask HN: What's the best way for a foreigner to improve English to a great level?

#32
I will assume that fluency here means spoken comprehension and speaking so you are easily understood by a vast majority of the population. In my data, these are both harder than reading comprehension for english. Reading comprehension also seems far more prevalent than spoken comprehension and fluency.

In my travels through language learning I have come upon two dominant models for language acquisition:

1- The academic model - learning about phonemes, IPA, SOV (Subject-Object-Verb) versus SVO etc. Somewhere along the line the hope is that everything will click and you will develop good pronunciation, comprehension and the rest. This works for some people but the vast majority do not end up with basic comprehension or even decent pronunciation. Fluency is rare and often a land far far away.

2- Mimicry - This is how infants acquire languages and also how we get our accents. This model almost invariably works - witness the billions of infants who speak the language(s) of the lands they were born into without any training in IPA. This is also why it is hard to learn english from a native english speaker who lacks formal training in imparting language education. Ditto learning to catch frisbees from dogs.

Mimicry has two steps namely discernment and replication. In discernment, just like in learning to play music one has to "hear" it before one can replicate it. The process below will help you learn to discern the sound. Once you get proficient at hearing it you can then try to replicate it. Again just like learning to play music, you now try to replicate the sound you have learnt to discern.

Quite a few commenters have suggested following along to tv/radio/movies in the english language to grok enunciation, syntax and vocabulary. FWIW, this is stellar advice which will serve you better than most language learning packages.

Here is a pragmatic way to go about the above advice:

#1 Voice of America (VOA) news readers are the closest to an American version of the BBC's newscasters "received english" accents. VOA has a great language learning resource where their newscasters read out news stories in carefully enunciated english: http://learningenglish.voanews.com/.

#2 Pick a news item for example "English Level 1 --> "Remembering Nelson Mandela..." and download the mp3 file from "Play or download..."

#3 Download VLC player: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html.

#4 Play the downloaded mp3 and read the article aloud trying to replicate the enunciation. VLC player comes in handy wherein under playback you can slow down the playback speed to really understand the enunciation and replicate it. Stop and replay as often as needed. In some versions of VLC player like on Android you might have to turn on equalization in VLC to overcome the distortion when you slow-dow/speed-up the playback.

As indicated by many commenters, doing this for 1-2 hours/day will get you results in a very short period. Short period here would mean weeks to months. If you do try this please post the results of your process and what worked and did not work for you.

Re: Ask HN: What's the best way for a foreigner to improve English to a great level?

#33
post #18

I'd recommend taking an intensive ESL course, which you presumably have many options for at local universities. (My wife, who is Japanese, is similarly looking into options.) If that isn't an option: For listening comprehension, and eventually speaking, practice "shadowing." Have her listen to interest-appropriate TV shows and say exactly what the speaker is saying, in real time. (You can also do this exercise with t…

Thanks patio11 (you're one of my favorite HN commenters, BTW :D). I found out that Japanese and Italian, as languages, have a lot in common in terms of pronunciation, and IT and JP speaking people have similar issues when trying to learn English. I will definitively tell my wife to look into this.

Re: Ask HN: What's the best way for a foreigner to improve English to a great level?

#34

I've been in this situation in another language: nothing beats (1) reading and (2) listening and (3) forcing yourself to speak. It sounds like (3) may be a problem for your wife because of her lack of confidence. Forcing herself to speak English, as if there is no option, will make the difference. If you two were to speak English to each other, so that she could literally stay in English-only mode all day, every day,…

We will always keep "some" Italian accent, don't worry :)

Re: Ask HN: What's the best way for a foreigner to improve English to a great level?

#35

What's the best way for a foreigner to improve English to a great level? I wrote a FAQ comment about that a while ago that became one of my most popular ever comments. I'll link to that here rather than repeat all the text again. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6302816 Good luck!

Thanks tokenadult!

Re: Ask HN: What's the best way for a foreigner to improve English to a great level?

#36
post #10

Play Cards Against Humanity with a couple understanding, native English-speaking friends. My girlfriend's sister's boyfriend is Swiss, and CAH has helped him learn a number idioms rather quickly.

We just bought it a few weeks ago! We'll use it more often :)

Re: Ask HN: What's the best way for a foreigner to improve English to a great level?

#37
post #27

This is one situation where watching TV as a background activity might actually be helpful. The best way to learn English is to surround yourself with English as much as possible. So, read, watch TV, talk to people, and to speak English at home as much as possible. On the other hand, I bet her English is actually better than she thinks it is. I've met a lot of non-native English speakers who have unnecessarily apolog…

As a former ESL teacher, I think TV can be helpful but it's better to be very selective about which shows you watch. Pick shows that have a lot of dialogue in English. Older TV shows tend to be more dialogue-centric. If you have the TV Land channel, I'd suggest: MASH, All in the Family, I Love Lucy, The Honeymooners, The Dick Van Dyke Show, &c. Contemporary shows that would be good for this purpose might be: Modern F…

Good point. I think I might actually avoid comedies at first though, because it can be hard to get the jokes.

Re: Ask HN: What's the best way for a foreigner to improve English to a great level?

#38
I moved to the US 15 years ago. I thought my English was good (A+ in every exam I ever took), but I was sadly mistaken. Thankfully it didn't prevent me from getting jobs.

It took me about 2-3 years to get truly fluent. Get out there, speak English with everyone, get yourself in uncomfortable situations, immerse yourself in the language completely. That's the only way to really get it.

I think Pitarou's answer is spot on, if you need to improve the language skills in a short time though.

Re: Ask HN: What's the best way for a foreigner to improve English to a great level?

#39
Movies are a great supplementary source to actual ESL-type classes. It's difficult for language classes to teach turns of phrases, idioms, regional dialects, etc. Movies with subtitles are great -- Even better if you can find movies that offer subtitle files in both English and Italian. VLC can take multiple subtitle files and let you toggle pretty easily between the two languages.

(Set up hotkeys to toggle subtitle files, to go back 15 or 30 seconds. Space bar pauses.)

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