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Ask HN: Do you cold-contact peers when considering working at a company?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you cold-contact peers when considering working at a company?

#31

Post by impendia »

mandytolliver wrote: post #14
myth_drannon wrote: post #11

I will not reply to you or if I do my response will be neutral. An employee can get in trouble if he is critical of his current employer.

I completely agree. But it's still possible to respond neutrally, truthfully, and informatively. For example, it's possible to just answer with positive aspects and leave out the negatives--that's still valuable info. Or someone can honestly talk about whether the culture is, for example, high-energy or more laid-back -- each has its advantages. Are you saying that it is _not_ at all worth cold-emailing a peer in a p…

I am on the hiring committee at a university mathematics department. As such, I read a bunch of rec letters. All of them are positive and praise the applicants. But, some of them say things like "Candidate X ingeniously solved Problem Y which I, along with Famous People A, B, and C, had no idea how to do." And others just say "Candidate X is diligent, cheerful, and a hard worker."

In short, +1 to the parent comment. It should definitely be possible to gain useful information from an e-mail that focuses on the positives.

Re: Ask HN: Do you cold-contact peers when considering working at a company?

#32

Post by SandB0x »

When I was a minion at a medium sized software company, if you had emailed me at my work address I would have either not replied or would have done so very cautiously.

If we had met through friends or at a meetup, I'd have been happy to talk to you much more openly about my job and the workplace.

The best developers I know have contacts all over town. They occasionally go along to meetups and user-groups on things they are interested in - not in a cynical way, they just enjoy chatting to like-minded folk and learning.

I would suggest you start doing the same, with the warnings about appearing desperate as mentioned in jonnathanson's comment. You don't have to sacrifice your personal/family life, just go along to a meetup on some technology/language/topic of interest once or twice a month, be friendly and personable, swap details with any like-minded people and stay in touch with them on occasion.

Re: Ask HN: Do you cold-contact peers when considering working at a company?

#33

Post by loumf »

mandytolliver wrote: post #28
loumf wrote: post #23

This is commonly called an "informational interview". I don't get how applying for a job makes you seem needy, though. If there's actually a job opening and you are qualified for it, then why not apply? I think of informational interviews as being a way to network into jobs that don't exist (or before they are posted)

Employers often prefer passive candidates to actives--it's the "playing hard to get" thing. As to the informational interview -- is that also the term used when the candidate makes contact to a peer? If so, then it's good to know that the concept exists.

The term is used for candidate generated interviews with whoever they can get them with (usually through their network). It's often used to generate a position or to be top-of-mind by a set of companies when they open a position. It's a short leap from there to what you are saying.

Setting up informational interviews (to me, someone who has been hiring developers for 20+ years) is a sign of maturity. I think of such a person as "active", but knows enough not to put a resume in a pile. It only assures them of a real interview -- not the job (they jump to the top of the pile)

I personally would never apply blind.

Re: Ask HN: Do you cold-contact peers when considering working at a company?

#34

Post by mandytolliver »

loumf wrote: post #33
mandytolliver wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers often prefer passive candidates to actives--it's the "playing hard to get" thing. As to the informational interview -- is that also the term used when the candidate makes contact to a peer? If so, then it's good to know that the concept exists.

The term is used for candidate generated interviews with whoever they can get them with (usually through their network). It's often used to generate a position or to be top-of-mind by a set of companies when they open a position. It's a short leap from there to what you are saying. Setting up informational interviews (to me, someone who has been hiring developers for 20+ years) is a sign of maturity. I think of such…

Thanks! So I see that the concept exists and is considered a sign of maturity, not rudeness. Good! I think I'll do it.

As to whether it is through my network or not -- I'll try my network, but a well-phrased email that shows I am a serious professional is usually enough to get a foot in the door, even with someone who doesn't know me.

Re: Ask HN: Do you cold-contact peers when considering working at a company?

#35

Post by mandytolliver »

loumf wrote: post #30
mandytolliver wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, that makes sense. But if you don't know anyone, why not find some developer and their email address (a bit of Google-Fu will do it) and contact them? To me, it seems polite enough. Wouldn't _you_ answer such an email if it was polite and seemed to come from a serious developer?

Of course I would -- it's hard to find people. Some companies give referral bonuses to incent their employees to recruit on their behalf. If the idea is to get "inside information", I think it will fail (or at least, hope it will). Not treating company information as secret (especially to strangers) is a sign of a dysfunctional organization. If it's just "feel" that you are looking for -- then I think you'll get that…

Yes, it's just feel. A peppy intelligent response will give me a more positive feel than no response or a cold, guarded response.

That is far from a good indicator, but it is a start.

And if the communication goes well, I can schedule a call or continue the email correspondence.

Re: Ask HN: Do you cold-contact peers when considering working at a company?

#36

Post by fanshen »

I recently did my first job search (about to graduate). I emailed one company cold and this resulted in a useful informational interview. I tried it a few other places and got no reply.

Note: I was not emailing a specific developer, but instead the main company contact info. Like you, I asked to talk to determine fit.

I got much better results when I already knew someone at the company.

Re: Ask HN: Do you cold-contact peers when considering working at a company?

#37

Post by joe_the_user »

SandB0x wrote: post #32

When I was a minion at a medium sized software company, if you had emailed me at my work address I would have either not replied or would have done so very cautiously. If we had met through friends or at a meetup, I'd have been happy to talk to you much more openly about my job and the workplace. The best developers I know have contacts all over town. They occasionally go along to meetups and user-groups on things th…

The best developers I know have contacts all over town. They occasionally go along to meetups and user-groups on things they are interested in, not in a cynical way, and just enjoy chatting to like-minded folk.

Interesting. Seeing it laid that way, one could easily see that as selection bias. The good developers you know have contacts all over town. The good developers you don't know don't have contact all over town and so you don't know and can't compare them to the developers you know.

Not that this an argument against socializing, just the opposite.

Re: Ask HN: Do you cold-contact peers when considering working at a company?

#38

Post by SandB0x »

joe_the_user wrote: post #37
SandB0x wrote: post #32

When I was a minion at a medium sized software company, if you had emailed me at my work address I would have either not replied or would have done so very cautiously. If we had met through friends or at a meetup, I'd have been happy to talk to you much more openly about my job and the workplace. The best developers I know have contacts all over town. They occasionally go along to meetups and user-groups on things th…

The best developers I know have contacts all over town. They occasionally go along to meetups and user-groups on things they are interested in, not in a cynical way, and just enjoy chatting to like-minded folk. Interesting. Seeing it laid that way, one could easily see that as selection bias. The good developers you know have contacts all over town. The good developers you don't know don't have contact all over town…

I understand what you're saying but I am referring to people I've worked with.

I'm not saying that there is no bias in that observation or that a certain kind of networking will somehow turn into you an amazing developer. Maybe people who make themselves part of a community will learn (or learn about) useful skills from their friends/peers. Maybe some people like sharing and talking about their skills and creations. Maybe people who only interact with their immediate colleagues in their current place of work are prone to developing bad habits.

Maybe this is not the typical case but all I know is that the best people I have worked with have maintained a group of friends/peers/colleagues in the software industry outside the walls of their place of work.

Re: Ask HN: Do you cold-contact peers when considering working at a company?

#39

Post by robszumski »

I recently had a interested party connect with me via LinkedIn specifically because I has just left the company and he wanted to know why. Our professions didn't overlap too much but he was very interested in what I was doing now and what I had to say about the company. Struck me as a very smart tactic.

Re: Ask HN: Do you cold-contact peers when considering working at a company?

#40

Post by nahname »

joe_the_user wrote: post #37
SandB0x wrote: post #32

When I was a minion at a medium sized software company, if you had emailed me at my work address I would have either not replied or would have done so very cautiously. If we had met through friends or at a meetup, I'd have been happy to talk to you much more openly about my job and the workplace. The best developers I know have contacts all over town. They occasionally go along to meetups and user-groups on things th…

The best developers I know have contacts all over town. They occasionally go along to meetups and user-groups on things they are interested in, not in a cynical way, and just enjoy chatting to like-minded folk. Interesting. Seeing it laid that way, one could easily see that as selection bias. The good developers you know have contacts all over town. The good developers you don't know don't have contact all over town…

Passionate people enjoy what they do and are better at it than non-passionate people. Seems obvious.
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