Ask HN: Why is PGP not used widely? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why is PGP not used widely?

#31

Post by moocowduckquack » Sun, Nov 03, 2013, 2:39 PM UTC

claudius wrote: post #28

dalek_cannes wrote: post #14

I think it's because there still isn't a good metaphor that covers up the complexity of public key encryption. Such a metaphor is a prerequisite for a UI that the average user can comprehend. First, I think we should rename the keys to 'locking key' and 'unlocking key'. I've had people still scratch their heads at 'public/private' a few days after I've completely explained the concept to them. They find it easier to…

> First, I think we should rename the keys to 'locking key' and 'unlocking key'. Why not go a step further and call one ‘key’ and the other ‘lock’? So you can share (copies of) your lock freely with others, and if they want to send encrypted email to you, they take your ‘lock’ and put it on that email. It then becomes obvious that you shouldn’t share the private key (after all, anybody could then unlock the locks) an…

That would make for nice iconography - public keys being open padlocks, private keys being keys and encrypted things being closed padlocks.

Re: Ask HN: Why is PGP not used widely?

#32

Post by LiamMcCalloway » Sun, Nov 03, 2013, 2:45 PM UTC

dalek_cannes wrote: post #14

I think it's because there still isn't a good metaphor that covers up the complexity of public key encryption. Such a metaphor is a prerequisite for a UI that the average user can comprehend. First, I think we should rename the keys to 'locking key' and 'unlocking key'. I've had people still scratch their heads at 'public/private' a few days after I've completely explained the concept to them. They find it easier to…

As everyone is pointi ng out, usability is too low. A good target for usability would be TextSecure, the OTR for sms Android app (why I'm sure everyone is using).

Essentially, TextSecure works because: 1. It reverts to completely normal behavior if the recipient doesn't use TextSecure. 2. It automatically sets up keys if it recognizes the recipient uses TextSecure. 3. It never asks you for anything besides a password when you start the app the first time.

Point 2 is the difficult one for email, as is the the fact that people use email on a variety of devices, requiring syncing between computer/devices.

I would suggest emails get a X-smtg header which advertises the sending device is PGP capable, and the email client prompts the user automatically to set up key exchange. Remains syncing, which afaik isn't the hardest part.

Re: Ask HN: Why is PGP not used widely?

#33

Post by ronaldx » Sun, Nov 03, 2013, 2:53 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #24

Huh, I don't see what I would have considered the obvious answer among what's already been said. So, to me, the obvious answer is that if you want to use PGP, you first have to make everyone you intend to communicate with also use PGP. That's an obvious no-go. I would be happy to set it up, but what good would that do me?

Right.

PGP is enabled by the recipient, not the sender.

If I release my public key (convincingly authenticated), it's up to the sender to take their time to use it.

Re: Ask HN: Why is PGP not used widely?

#34

Post by filopodium » Sun, Nov 03, 2013, 2:54 PM UTC

betterunix wrote: post #11

In my experience it is mostly due to annoyance. PGP is seamless until someone tries to check their mail on their friend's computer and discovers that encryption works as intended . Then all of a sudden they start begging you not to send them encrypted messages. I have yet to see any other reason for why PGP is not even used by people for whom it would be easy. Even within the security and cryptography research commun…

A version of your suggested solution is currently in use in Estonia [1], although it is not really used to encrypt e-mails.

I guess it's one of the virtues of having a population a tad smaller than 1.5 million.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_ID_card

Re: Ask HN: Why is PGP not used widely?

#35

Post by modernerd » Sun, Nov 03, 2013, 2:56 PM UTC

Even Phil Zimmermann, PGP's creator, says it's too hard to use:

“I hardly ever run PGP. When people send me PGP encrypted mail I have to go through a lot of trouble to decrypt it. If it’s coming from a stranger, I’ll say please re-send this in plain text, which probably raises their eyebrows.“

http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2013/08/09/e-mails-bi...

Re: Ask HN: Why is PGP not used widely?

#36

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Nov 03, 2013, 2:59 PM UTC

csandreasen wrote: post #26

betterunix wrote: post #11

In my experience it is mostly due to annoyance. PGP is seamless until someone tries to check their mail on their friend's computer and discovers that encryption works as intended . Then all of a sudden they start begging you not to send them encrypted messages. I have yet to see any other reason for why PGP is not even used by people for whom it would be easy. Even within the security and cryptography research commun…

I know some folks in the Air Force - all of their ID cards have public/private keys stored on them. They use them (plus a pin) for logging onto their computers at work, all of their e-mails are digitally signed, and the computer is locked just by removing the card from the card reader. Most personnel don't know a thing about public key encryption/two factor authentication, and likely wouldn't care if you offered to e…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why is PGP not used widely?

#37

Post by brownbat » Sun, Nov 03, 2013, 3:09 PM UTC

Users don't do security, all of this should happen automatically in the background.

When you hit send, a shared key should be negotiated with the recipient before your text leaves your box, without you really knowing it.

The key could silently be negotiated on top of the same protocol through automatically generated emails containing key setup information in headers (but empty "body" fields).

Specs for those key negotiation headers could easily go in an RFC, and systems that don't speak the language could then be shamed as noncompliant.

Re: Ask HN: Why is PGP not used widely?

#38

Post by anovikov » Sun, Nov 03, 2013, 3:21 PM UTC

Not used because it's cumbersome for the average user.

Re: Ask HN: Why is PGP not used widely?

#39

Post by nmcfarl » Sun, Nov 03, 2013, 3:35 PM UTC

kintamanimatt wrote: post #20

dalek_cannes wrote: post #14

I think it's because there still isn't a good metaphor that covers up the complexity of public key encryption. Such a metaphor is a prerequisite for a UI that the average user can comprehend. First, I think we should rename the keys to 'locking key' and 'unlocking key'. I've had people still scratch their heads at 'public/private' a few days after I've completely explained the concept to them. They find it easier to…

The problem with the key exchange mechanism you've described is it's untrustworthy. The software would be essentially asking "is this initial email from the person you think it is?" which is a tough question to answer given the fact that emails can be readily spoofed. Granted, Bob's key will differ from Mallory's key, but there may be just enough time to do bad things before detection. Key exchange between people sho…

I'm not sure the general public needs the level of trust you are describing. The have an email address somehow, from a Facebook chat, business card, or spam mail - and that's the level of trust in identity they are currently comfortable with.

Adding a key exchange with the identity they have - the person handing out biz cards could be lieing about his identity, but if someone else spoofs his key, he will not be able to read the email which will still end up in his inbox, not the spoofers. So now the spoofer needs to control this guys whole box to read and delete the emails, or else he'll be detected. At this point if your box is compromised, pgp isn't providing security. ;)

On the whole it sounds easier to impersonate biz card guy, than to just spoof his real email address and provide a fake pgp key.

(And as for unsolicited mails identity being trusted - Nigerian spam does still work, but the message has gotten through, even to the general populace - people know there is no assurance that identities are real. We just need to NOT undermine that distrust when adding pgp. )

Re: Ask HN: Why is PGP not used widely?

#40

Post by Shivetya » Sun, Nov 03, 2013, 3:50 PM UTC

Where I work they recently rolled out a policy that all laptops must be protected by PGP. We are not a small company and that update was pushed out with a few minor inconveniences but for me, I do not even notice its there.