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Ask HN: Is the Job Market Actually Bad?

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Re: Ask HN: Is the Job Market Actually Bad?

#31

Post by greenchair »

yolo3000 wrote: post #19
alephnerd wrote: post #7

It isn't. As someone who has made hiring and firing decisions at the Board level, the people who are the most severely affected were either (in no order): 1. Working remotely in North America but demanding Bay Area salaries without the chops to justify it. 2. Working in Western Europe (they complain more about stuff irrelevant to the business but shy away from business critical decision making when offered the opport…

Why do you even hire in Europe when the smartest people are in the Bay Area?

ha! thanks

Re: Ask HN: Is the Job Market Actually Bad?

#32

Post by luke5441 »

alephnerd wrote: post #7

It isn't. As someone who has made hiring and firing decisions at the Board level, the people who are the most severely affected were either (in no order): 1. Working remotely in North America but demanding Bay Area salaries without the chops to justify it. 2. Working in Western Europe (they complain more about stuff irrelevant to the business but shy away from business critical decision making when offered the opport…

As someone maybe in group (2). What kind of stereotyping is this? And why do you want to have non-complaining worker drones? Maybe older people from those countries are good at keeping their head down in soviet style work configurations, but is this the kind of company you want to have?

I'd more guess it is that there is a severe income tax advantage, B2B contracts are also easier in eastern Europe.

Re: Ask HN: Is the Job Market Actually Bad?

#33

Post by weakfish »

sputknick wrote: post #20

I've been looking for 4 months and only had one phone screen from HR. Cybersecurity in Raleigh, my last employer was MAG 7. My particular problem is I took off 6 years to be a stay-at-home parent.

Email in my bio, I’m in the triangle and would love to connect. I know some cyber folks who I can link you up with.

Re: Ask HN: Is the Job Market Actually Bad?

#34

Post by alephnerd »

dgellow wrote: post #25
alephnerd wrote: post #7

It isn't. As someone who has made hiring and firing decisions at the Board level, the people who are the most severely affected were either (in no order): 1. Working remotely in North America but demanding Bay Area salaries without the chops to justify it. 2. Working in Western Europe (they complain more about stuff irrelevant to the business but shy away from business critical decision making when offered the opport…

I feel so much disdain for workers coming from your words. I hope to never work for someone like you

[flagged]

Re: Ask HN: Is the Job Market Actually Bad?

#35

Post by lpapez »

sputknick wrote: post #20

I've been looking for 4 months and only had one phone screen from HR. Cybersecurity in Raleigh, my last employer was MAG 7. My particular problem is I took off 6 years to be a stay-at-home parent.

Can't you simply fill that gap on your resume with something made up? "Self employed", "freelancer", "stealth startup", "confidential employer" etc.

How would the companies ever know?

Re: Ask HN: Is the Job Market Actually Bad?

#36

Post by weakfish »

This is anecdotal and purely vibes based so YMMV but my view is that it’s a lot worse looking if you’re restricting yourself to just Big Tech like all of the programming subreddits do. There’s tons of companies outside that sphere who need engineers, but too many programmers thing it’s MAANG or bust.

Re: Ask HN: Is the Job Market Actually Bad?

#37

Post by paulpauper »

Like many things in life, it's highly situational and individualized. If you have top credential from a top school, your prospects are going to be better than someone with worse credentials, all else equal. Or if your expectations are too highs , things may seem worse.

Re: Ask HN: Is the Job Market Actually Bad?

#38

Post by paulcole »

yolo3000 wrote: post #19
alephnerd wrote: post #7

It isn't. As someone who has made hiring and firing decisions at the Board level, the people who are the most severely affected were either (in no order): 1. Working remotely in North America but demanding Bay Area salaries without the chops to justify it. 2. Working in Western Europe (they complain more about stuff irrelevant to the business but shy away from business critical decision making when offered the opport…

Why do you even hire in Europe when the smartest people are in the Bay Area?

Most jobs don’t require the smartest people.

Re: Ask HN: Is the Job Market Actually Bad?

#39

Post by alephnerd »

luke5441 wrote: post #32
alephnerd wrote: post #7

It isn't. As someone who has made hiring and firing decisions at the Board level, the people who are the most severely affected were either (in no order): 1. Working remotely in North America but demanding Bay Area salaries without the chops to justify it. 2. Working in Western Europe (they complain more about stuff irrelevant to the business but shy away from business critical decision making when offered the opport…

As someone maybe in group (2). What kind of stereotyping is this? And why do you want to have non-complaining worker drones? Maybe older people from those countries are good at keeping their head down in soviet style work configurations, but is this the kind of company you want to have? I'd more guess it is that there is a severe income tax advantage, B2B contracts are also easier in eastern Europe.

> why do you want to have non-complaining worker drones

We want opinionated engineers. But we want engineers who will respond to a slack message after 5pm during a P1 escalation.

> I'd more guess it is that there is a severe income tax advantage

Somewhat but not enough to move the needle because depending on the local government, they are matching cross-EU subsidizes.

> older people from those countries are good at keeping their head down in soviet style work configurations

Other way around. The Western European employees want a heads down and no input but high paying job.

CEE peers will push back and be opinionated but also try to think from a business outcomes perspective.

> soviet style work configurations

Which ironically is closer to German business and work culture instead of in Eastern Europe.

Edit: can't reply

> Of course if you pay someone 135k vs 70k real income

Salaries at the 75th percentile and above for SWEs are kept constant across Europe.

Heck, the companies for which I am a board member as well as companies at I have previously been management or line-level engineers all pay in the €130K-€170K TC range in Germany as well as across the CEE.

This is waaaaaay above TC for the average European in tech and we know it.

It sucks but the reality is the talent density in Western Europe is weaker than in the CEE, and it is mindset driven.

A German SWE wants a 9-5. A Czech SWE wants to build the next JetBrains.

We want to hire or fund the latter, not the former.

Re: Ask HN: Is the Job Market Actually Bad?

#40

Post by idontwantthis »

sputknick wrote: post #20

I've been looking for 4 months and only had one phone screen from HR. Cybersecurity in Raleigh, my last employer was MAG 7. My particular problem is I took off 6 years to be a stay-at-home parent.

Are you involved in DefCon? There's probably a local chapter that would help you get in touch with the right people.

Also, I totally wish I could afford to be a stay at home parent. I'm sure you made the right choice with those 6 years!

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