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Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

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Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#31

Post by h2odragon »

foxglacier wrote: post #30
h2odragon wrote: post #9

Micro-stepping controller chips. Before that, the precision available without gearing and feedback wasn't sufficient. There were systems but they were order of magnitude more complicated and several orders more expensive.

How do you reconcile that claim with the existence of cheap consumer paper printers and hard drives?

paper printers only needed such accuracy in one axis of motion, and had gearing to provide it.

hard drives use voice coils, a completely different technology. The circuitry that does that evolved and certainly influenced the creation of microstepper controllers: the neat trick they do is treat the stepper motor as a voice coil in between full steps.

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#32

Post by superconduct123 »

the__alchemist wrote: post #29

Some observations that I didn't see in the other comments: - Home 3D printing is often more of a hobby than a traditional prototyping or engineering discipline. People view it as a skill to have, and a fun use of free time. Note how the cheapest and most finicky ones are popular; they can be made to work well through careful operation, troubleshooting, procedures, customization etc. They are not set-and-forget, and I…

That's a really good point

Those AliExpress clone kits were really popular in the community in the beginning

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#33

Post by foxglacier »

jeffbee wrote: post #23

It was the polymers that needed to be invented. In the 1990s we used to order quick-turn prototype 3D prints for parts to check fit before committing to tooling for hard materials, but we only had 3 days to work with it before it fell apart into a puddle of goo.

I don't think that's a reason. PLA and ABS were invented before the 1990's. What was this self-destructing material, and why?

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#34

Post by Legend2440 »

jkingsman wrote: post #13

I don't know that I'd argue that "consumer" 3D printing, as in a printer at home that just churns out a part when you want it, is even really hear yet, certainly not in the way that a dishwasher or lawnmower is. You need to do your own slicing, thinking through supports and brims and layer height, and the printers themselves need no small amount of troubleshooting that is much more than "turn it on and off again". So…

The big limiting factor IMO is CAD skills - otherwise you're just printing parts off thingiverse.

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#35

Post by syntaxing »

A mixture of patent protection, China’s (lack of) precision manufacturing at scale at that time, and software immaturity. LM8UU around 15 years ago when I started my 3D printing journey was upwards of $15 PER PIECE. You need at least 8 for a Mendel or i3 style printer during the reprap boom. Just the bearings alone would have cost you, $100 or so. Then factor in chrome rods, stepper motor, stepper motor drivers (Pololu just released their A4988 boards), you’re looking at almost $1K just for the parts. The software like slicers and even gcode interpreters weren’t even made yet. Merlin wasn’t even a big thing until about 10 years ago. We take for granted how much work the community has put into 3D printers to get us where we are today.

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#36

Post by grogenaut »

sottol wrote: post #25

I think it's probably correct that few people *really* cared until the Reprap project showed a real DIY 3D printer was possible. Early machines were industrial machines with huge price tags, proper linear motion systems, complicated extrusion systems and so on. There is a bit of a mental leap to go from seeing $100k+ machine and dreaming to design something that can be built for $200-500. The problems were: no "refer…

There's also an economy of scale going on that snowballed a ton. In 2014 I got my first printer off Craigslist. The bom was like $1200. Steppers were like $80 ea, a ramps board without controllers was 80-120, the controllers were 20-40 each, the heated bed was a huge PCB so also not cheap. Cheap PCB houses were nascent at the time. Arduinos we're $50+. Power supplies like 40-150.

Now you can get the steppers from Amazon for $8, a control board with stepper controllers for $20 with a built in 32 bit MCU. At scale if you're building a lot of them those parts are going to be even cheaper maybe even another order of magnitude. For a while it was difficult to actually even comprehend how much cheaper stuff was getting and what that lets you do. And then you see a resin printer for $140 and realize it's a cast-off I found screen one stepper and some extruded parts.

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#37

Post by TaylorAlexander »

sottol wrote: post #25

I think it's probably correct that few people *really* cared until the Reprap project showed a real DIY 3D printer was possible. Early machines were industrial machines with huge price tags, proper linear motion systems, complicated extrusion systems and so on. There is a bit of a mental leap to go from seeing $100k+ machine and dreaming to design something that can be built for $200-500. The problems were: no "refer…

A few notes: The patents were a huge impediment. They did not expire till 2008 - before then printers cost $25k. They were expensive and stratasys had no incentive to make them $300 like they are today so volumes were limited. From their release in 1995 until 2008 stratasys sold like 13000 printers according to their company history web page. For a long time now Prusa has shipped more printers than that in a single month. The Reprap Darwin wasn’t built until late 2007, then makerbot and others followed. I bought an Ultimaker in 2011 and that’s when it feels to me like home printing started to become viable.

Once anyone could build their own design, a community of hackers and engineers formed that continuously improved the designs with diverse ideas and experiments. That community is what made 3D printing what it is today. And it was illegal for them to do all of that (in many countries) until the patent expiration in 2008. That’s a big reason why it took so long. I think it’s interesting to consider whether this would have happened sooner if they had never been patented, though perhaps the expired patent created a legal safe haven where no one could take away the basic principles by patenting them. Anyway, patents play a big role in this story!

Edit: Some cool history here: https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/interview-dr-adrian-bowy...

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#39

Post by flimsypremise »

h2odragon wrote: post #31
foxglacier wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile that claim with the existence of cheap consumer paper printers and hard drives?

paper printers only needed such accuracy in one axis of motion, and had gearing to provide it. hard drives use voice coils, a completely different technology. The circuitry that does that evolved and certainly influenced the creation of microstepper controllers: the neat trick they do is treat the stepper motor as a voice coil in between full steps.

I have several 2-axis microscope stages from the 80s/90s that are driven by brushed motors with position feedback, and they are all capable of higher accuracy than any stepper motor I have. The capability was there, it was just pricey.

Hell, CNC machines existed back then too.

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