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Ask HN: How to pivot to a Machine Learning engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: How to pivot to a Machine Learning engineer?

#31
post #25

I'm not "pivoting to a ML engineer" but in the last 2.5 months I've learned to some extent to use public models, use the tools and APIs to train and run them. That was a lot of reading with little code writing. I didn't pivot into it, that was part of the project (object recognition in a video stream). It helps if you work with small organizations that don't box you into a role but just give you stuff to do.

Could you please share some of the learning resources you used and found useful. I am overwhelmed by the amount of ML related material out there and am having a hard time finding out material what is worth my time as a software engineer.

The most important thing is I have a fixed goal and a paying customer to keep happy :)

The resources are all crap to be honest. Half of them have been obsolete for a year or more and most of the rest look like they're done for self promotion and assume you already know everything. Every public repo you run into has already been forked 3 to 10 times and now you have to find out which one(s) is/are up to date.

I had one of these toys:

https://shop.luxonis.com/collections/oak-cameras-1

They're cameras with a colour cam, two b&w cams that give you depth info (z-distance) and a small coprocessor from Intel that can run a reduced neural network directly on the cam.

The other thing they have is their own API and pretty good documentation for it.

It won't teach you about ML math but you'll get used to loading pre trained models and getting your data out of them. And then you'll move on to training your own model (look at DarkMark for example), converting models between various formats and other stuff like that that I'm still learning.

And you get a pretty fun toy!

Mind, i've only worked with object recognition. I have no idea about LLMs or other applications of neural networks.

Re: Ask HN: How to pivot to a Machine Learning engineer?

#32

Get a PhD in ML from a top school. If you can't, get a MS CS/DS with ML emphasis from a top school, AI grad cert from Stanford at a minimum so that you can understand the latest arxiv papers. If you can't, YOLO and sift through a lot of low-quality articles on the Internet, find the gold nuggets and learn to apply them rapidly and then hope somebody will notice you and hire you. Competition is brutal right now as AI…

Citation needed on "competition is brutal right now". I'm seeing folks with their first and only workshop paper at an ACL track conference landing 150K offers starting at no-name startups. Some of these folks are not even 20 yet. Workshop papers are considered "easy" to publish, and are held in lower regard compared to main conference publications. If it's "brutal" to compete against folks like this, I think a lot ar…

There aren't that many folks who publish even workshop papers. Most folks are scared of academics and hope to raze their way to ML just with dev skills which is unlikely to work as they won't be able to grasp the concepts they need to implement, especially if they work on anything <2 year old. $150k is also on the low end.

Re: Ask HN: How to pivot to a Machine Learning engineer?

#33
You should try fast.ai practical deep learning for coders part 1 and 2. It's quite dated 2022 but the principles you learn are very valid and highly useful in today's context. Especially self attention, transformers and the newer architectures based on these concepts.

Many who have done the fast.ai course have pivoted their careers into not only ML engineers but also research scientists.

It's not an easy course so to speak so you have to work through it in your spare time.

Since you are interested in deploying/scaling feel free to jump straight ahead to lesson 2 of part 1. Jeremy is an awesome teacher. I don't like or come from academia so I find his style of teaching very wholesome.

https://course.fast.ai/Lessons/lesson2.html

Re: Ask HN: How to pivot to a Machine Learning engineer?

#34
I actually wrote a blog post about this for experienced software engineers like you who are thinking of transitioning to ML, so I wanted to share it here: https://www.trybackprop.com/blog/2024_06_09_you_dont_need_a_...

I write about various engineers who now work at Meta, Google, Amazon, and OpenAI who made the switch. You can see what strategies and tactics they used to do it.

1) It's "wise" if you find during your personal hours you are enjoying hacking on it. Before I made the switch, I spent a year studying the material on nights and weekends so that was m my first data point that perhaps this is something I wanted to do full time.

2) Yes, I have! And I've been an ML engineer for 7 years now after I made the switch. For context, I'm an ML tech lead at FAANG. Prior to that, I worked in infrastructure and product.

3) One piece of advice I got on this years ago is to join a team adjacent to ML work so that you can get familiar with what production ML looks like. You can also start practicing ML thinking on Kaggle.com.

P.S. You can check out other posts in my blog for resources to learn AI/ML and the math needed for this career, such as my Linear Algebra 101 for AI/ML series: https://www.trybackprop.com/blog/linalg101/part_1_vectors_ma... (includes interactive quizzes, fundamentals of vectors/matrices, and a quick intro to PyTorch, an open source ML framework widely used in industry)

Re: Ask HN: How to pivot to a Machine Learning engineer?

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed on "competition is brutal right now". I'm seeing folks with their first and only workshop paper at an ACL track conference landing 150K offers starting at no-name startups. Some of these folks are not even 20 yet. Workshop papers are considered "easy" to publish, and are held in lower regard compared to main conference publications. If it's "brutal" to compete against folks like this, I think a lot ar…

There aren't that many folks who publish even workshop papers. Most folks are scared of academics and hope to raze their way to ML just with dev skills which is unlikely to work as they won't be able to grasp the concepts they need to implement, especially if they work on anything <2 year old. $150k is also on the low end.

There's plenty of demand for doing ML just by calling OpenAI or similar APIs as more or less total black boxes. Probably moreso than for designing and training your own models. And even then it's mostly taking a pretrained model from huggingface and doing fine-tuning and prompt churn by trial and error.

E.g. doing or hosting state-of-the-art LLMs is more or less infeasible for many/most use cases. (Applying LLMs succesfully for many/most use cases is probaly fundamentally infeasible, but that doesn't mean you can't get paid doing them anyway.)

Re: Ask HN: How to pivot to a Machine Learning engineer?

#39
There’s definitely going to be plenty of work in the area you’re describing, but I think it’s worth going in eyes-open and making sure you’re doing it for the right reason.

AI/ML is already becoming rapidly commoditised and the level you’re talking about is very infrastructure/platform orientated whereas all the real action (and potentially higher value stuff) is going to be happening an abstraction level or two above that.

It’s kind of like when electricity was invented. Do you want to become an engineer working on building the electricity grid (rapidly commoditised) or do you want to be the inventor/builder working on new things powered by this fancy new electricity?

The analogy isn’t perfect but I always think it’s worth carefully thinking about what level of abstraction you want to work at. Working in the infrastructure layer is definitely fun and rewarding. I would happily do that kind of work too. I love Devops. But like a lot of infrastructure level stuff it may not be where the “action” really is eventually.

But it depends what your motivations are too. “Do what you enjoy” is always a good way to set a general direction I think.

Just my two cents. I’m just an internet moron. I could be wrong.

Re: Ask HN: How to pivot to a Machine Learning engineer?

#40
A lot of great takes in this thread, but let me give more perspective being a MLE/MLOps Engineer myself around the math.

For me mathematics and statistics represent (a) unemployment insurance since it give me a lot of transitivity around roles in the space,(b) give me a good toolbox to talk as an equal with DS, and (c) for all implementation made by the Research Engineers/Data Scientists I can chime in and give insights and avoid waste of time and resources.

One example: When BERT was released (ca. 2018) I was working in a place where several Research Engineers and DSs wanted to use it in production for text classification.

The issue was that architecturally BERT was suboptimal due to a process called masking [1] that increases significantly the training time and the inference time was not so great. The alternative that I gave at that time was to use a mechanism called "Bag fo Tricks" [2] which its a very efficient modification of Bag of Words, but knowing math (and being on top of the literature) saved me from implementing something that would be inherently inefficient. Without having it it's hard to push back on DS/ResEng.

[1] - https://datascience.stackexchange.com/questions/97310/what-i... [2] - https://arxiv.org/abs/1607.01759

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