Ask HN: Will salaries of software engineers regress? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Will salaries of software engineers regress?

#31

Post by vunderba » Sun, Jun 23, 2024, 11:03 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #9

In addition to the great points in the other comments, I'd also point out that remote work is a double edged sword. I remember in the early 00s when the .com bubble burst, and there was huge talk of software work being outsourced to India and China. It never really happened, for lots of different reasons. This time around, though, companies are much more comfortable with remote work, and Zoom/Meet/etc. has gotten muc…

While I do think that better video conferencing + higher bandwidth has certainly helped the outsourcing movement, I still find that its fairly limited for many companies.

At least 50% of the positions that I come across on hiring boards that allow for fully remote still have a qualifying regional clarification (U.S. only). It's probably a combination of complexities around accounting/taxes and time zones.

However if a company can support outsourcing they can facilitate much easier communication between the onshore and offshore dev teams by restricting offshore hires by LONGITUDE not LATITUDE - e.g. United States companies hiring from Central and South America for example.

Re: Ask HN: Will salaries of software engineers regress?

#32

Post by GaryNumanVevo » Mon, Jun 24, 2024, 8:08 AM UTC

CM30 wrote: post #4

To a degree it feels like they are already. The increasing number of engineers looking for work means that companies don't have to offer as much to get good candidates, and it seems like salaries in many advertised jobs are going down because of it. I definitely see AI causing a hit too, since unfortunately, a lot of people's needs when it comes to tech are fairly limited. Yeah, it can't compete with a good programme…

AI (as of present) is only going to affect code monkeys. As a senior staff, most of my job is writing technical documents, and directing other engineers, and prototyping / fixing deep bugs. ChatGPT helps with prototyping a bit, but is largely useless for fixing bugs in large distributed systems.

Re: Ask HN: Will salaries of software engineers regress?

#33

Post by constantcrying » Mon, Jun 24, 2024, 8:45 AM UTC

znpy wrote: post #26

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Software development is vastly overpaid compared to how complex it is, imagine a 6 month Bootcamp for becoming a civil engineer. If anything, I think the past couple years have belied the idea that you can become a competent software developer in 6 months. It is this "lowest level" dev work anyway that I see under the most pressure from outsourcing.

I think this is only partially true. I think Software development is vastly overpaid for junior profiles but largely underpaid for senior profiles. If you think how central some key people are to some companies and how much those companies make (gross product)... You'll see that some key developers are probably worth even more than CEOs. This has been largely not understood, in my opinion.

Senior developers are harder to replace, but by no means are they underpaid.

Even if their contribution was significant, in most cases a replacement with the same competency could have been found.

Re: Ask HN: Will salaries of software engineers regress?

#34

Post by achierius » Mon, Jun 24, 2024, 2:56 PM UTC

fire_lake wrote: post #19

valdiorn wrote: post #8

They very much are, right now. Lots and lots of big layoffs, the FAANG/MAGMA companies have completely dropped the halo effect they had over the industry. Everyone had to chase them on comp to get the best people; now they're ejecting people left, right and centre and there's no incentive for the smaller players to try and keep up with the competition anymore, because the competition in gone. I've definitely noticed…

I was under impression that only a few prop trading and HFT firms in London pay around the 300k mark, with FANG-type companies offering roughly half. Start-ups slightly below that but with generous stock options, if that’s your bag. Maybe I’m miscalibrated?

Yes, miscalibrated -- a TC of $150k would be low for a FAANG company, unless you're just talking about entry level pay. Once you're a year or two in, $200k+ is typical.