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Ask HN: Anyone left their job because of RTO?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone left their job because of RTO?

#31

Yeah, I got a job as a dev at one of the UK's high street fashion retailers during the pandemic. Got a load of praise from directors n everyone else for implementing a proper development workflow within the department, as a junior. After the pandemic we all got an RTO mandate and I found a new, fully remote, job within a month. The director of the department I was in at the original employer told me she would not be…

#3 must be fun for tax purposes 1&2 are non-negotiable

You just file in the country you were hired in and illegally work on tourism visas in the others.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone left their job because of RTO?

#32
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tin foil hat says commercial real estate overlords need warm bodies in their empty buildings to provide foot traffic for lease signs go down. The weird thing is, I’m sure many people here would likely take a pay cut over RTO. If only we used this monumental opportunity to rethink how we need to collaborate and design cities to support or even embrace remote work models. Instead, back to concrete jungles and mind numb…

Real estate companies are generally not wielding any power over tech companies… tech companies have all the leverage in any office leasing deals right now. I’m sure there are exceptions though.

It may not be that simple. A lot of city and state tax revenue comes from commercial real estate...

Re: Ask HN: Anyone left their job because of RTO?

#34
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely think there’s merit to the conspiracy theory that people who own shares in companies are the same general groups of people as those who own commercial real estate interests. Or there’s the tried and true explanation that it’s just micromanagers who want play power games with their employees. The senior leadership team member can’t really conceptualize a world where an individual doesn’t sacrifice their e…

> Or there’s the tried and true explanation that it’s just micromanagers who want play power games with their employees. Everyone thinks they are the good employee that doesn’t need to be managed thank you very much. Yet every manager has seen employees that produce very little if they aren’t constantly managed. And every manager thinks they’re a good manager, too!

And every employee has seen companies that have no idea how to measure or foster high performance.

How many developers work in a companies where achieving a S.M.A.R.T. goal related to their output will result in a defined positive outcome (bonus, promotion, salary increase, title/level increase, stock grant)?

I’ve never seen a software development team be given an incentive like “deliver XYZ feature with less than N defects by datetime to receive a performance bonus of $10,000/1,000 shares.”

I have worked at a grand total of zero companies where anything close to this was the case. For me, every company has made equity into a joke, performance reviews into “you will always be a 3 unless you turn water into wine,” and significant raises regarding high performance merely match inflation.

I thought that we were beyond the illusion that micromanaging works. All it does is produce employees who create illusions of productivity beyond a minimum standard. These illusions will exist whether they’re in an office or not.

It’s as simple as making sure your boss likes you. There’s really no output difference between the mouse jiggler working at home and the salaryman staying late but pretending to work, taking care to leave after the boss leaves.

Meanwhile, the sales team has a grand total of zero people who are slacking off because their salary is on a commission. Every ounce of extra work is potential to earn more money. But for the engineering team the company has a perpetual surprised pikachu face when they find out that employees are just doing the bare minimum to stay off the firing radar despite having no tangible incentive to do otherwise.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone left their job because of RTO?

#35
post #10
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel your pain. The market is bleak at the moment. I checked linkedin a few times and it seems remote jobs are decreasing for some reason.

I definitely understand it as a supply and demand thing. If supply for labor is high and demand for candidates is low, then obviously employers don’t have to be quite as enticing to candidates. The most attractive jobs are remote jobs so they’re the first to be filled. What I don’t understand is why companies don’t seem to accept the obvious cost savings involved with remote work. I just can’t imagine that even hypot…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Anyone left their job because of RTO?

#36
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely understand it as a supply and demand thing. If supply for labor is high and demand for candidates is low, then obviously employers don’t have to be quite as enticing to candidates. The most attractive jobs are remote jobs so they’re the first to be filled. What I don’t understand is why companies don’t seem to accept the obvious cost savings involved with remote work. I just can’t imagine that even hypot…

Tin foil hat says commercial real estate overlords need warm bodies in their empty buildings to provide foot traffic for lease signs go down. The weird thing is, I’m sure many people here would likely take a pay cut over RTO. If only we used this monumental opportunity to rethink how we need to collaborate and design cities to support or even embrace remote work models. Instead, back to concrete jungles and mind numb…

Less tin foil hat reasoning that I've found: managers are lonely. CEOs are lonely. Especially when you have the space that is empty it's kinda depressing.

The tricky thing is if you have the office you gotta have space for a lot of people, even if the "ideal" amount might be a smaller space that would just feel fuller in hybrid environments.

In a recent Kojima Productions video, Kojima said something like "yeah we have the new office... please come in everyone!" It's an uphill battle, accentuated by people putting offices in places where you are doing close to office XOR low rent.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone left their job because of RTO?

#37
Yup, main reason I left my previous job post-covid. Traffic was worse, and they downgraded the office to a smaller, damp room, with a really loud air-conditioner. Half the team left after I did.

Current job does 2-3 days hybrid too, but it's more like synchronised days. If you can't make it, or if you're more productive at home, nobody yells at you to. Many people love working in person, but even the most extroverted ones don't like being forced to, especially when they're also under pressure to get work done.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone left their job because of RTO?

#38
I feel like this new wave of RTO is the same like any other org change disliked by the lower ranks.

Competent people switch jobs, while incompetent are fired, and the mediocrity stays and grudgingly conforms which is exactly what companies want - authority over the interchangeable cogs in the machine.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone left their job because of RTO?

#40

Yeah, I got a job as a dev at one of the UK's high street fashion retailers during the pandemic. Got a load of praise from directors n everyone else for implementing a proper development workflow within the department, as a junior. After the pandemic we all got an RTO mandate and I found a new, fully remote, job within a month. The director of the department I was in at the original employer told me she would not be…

#3 must be fun for tax purposes 1&2 are non-negotiable

I always wonder how #2 works, does all/most communication happen asynchronously? Doesn't that just slow everything down? 1&3 are more important to me than 2. I just plan my location by thinking about the hours I want to work. If I go East, I shift my day forward, if I go West, I shift my day back (apart from some extremes I guess).

I can't imagine all/most discussion async. I much prefer things to get discussed and resolved quickly, rather than having a back-and-forth of 10 messages last days because people are out of sync.

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