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Ask HN: Do quality web graphics, design and layout actually help businesses?

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Re: Ask HN: Do quality web graphics, design and layout actually help businesses?

#31

Post by piotr_krzyzek »

jessedhillon wrote: post #8

How many times have you not done business with a company because of the quality of its website? If its an online transaction I will generally try (not very hard) to find another vendor, but in person, I doubt anyone has losty business for this reason.

I've not bought items from retails with poor image online and offline. I'm very cautious around eCommerce sites that look horrid. I trust the better (looking) ones more.

In the 'real world', if I have to pick between Company A and Company B and assuming I've never been there before and both have the same levels of services/products at similar prices ... I'll check them out online. Who-ever seems more reputable wins my business. Part of that is their look/design/ect. The other part is online reviews.

Re: Ask HN: Do quality web graphics, design and layout actually help businesses?

#32

Post by piotr_krzyzek »

j45 wrote: post #7

When you buy something do you look at how it looks, presents and is put together? How much does that factor in for you when you're buying something for the first time?

Let's take the case of my soon to be car purchase. I'm picking a certain car company because of the cars looks. Since it's at a level where pretty much price, performance and features are equal throughout other companies ... I'm going with this one because to me it looks significantly better.

Re: Ask HN: Do quality web graphics, design and layout actually help businesses?

#33

Post by tptacek »

piotr_krzyzek wrote: post #27
underwater wrote: post #18

As a counterpoint to commenters who are going with their gut instinct, see the blog post by patio11 about redesigning Bingo Card Creator http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/04/19/ab-testing-is-frustratin... . He found that a new design did increase trial sign ups but did not increase sales.

I remember this one. The problem is the statement and his design is that it also changed his sales funnel. There was too much of a change to tell exactly where things fell apart or why specifically sales did not increase. Was it the initial offer? The middle? The actual offering? ect ect ... I agree with this assessment that new/better designs don't always increase sales, though I believe (should he ever choose to pu…

You think the "brand image" of a bingo card generator is going to make a difference in the long run? I challenge this because "brand image" is one of those indirect value propositions designers tend to tack on to every pitch.

Re: Ask HN: Do quality web graphics, design and layout actually help businesses?

#35

Post by wushupork »

It depends on what business you are in. If yours is primarily a B2B - design may or may not be that important. If you can solve a pain point - it doesn't matter what the solution looks like. You can see the result of that in any SMB software product - they look horrible.

However if you are trying to do a B2C people have wildly different expectations. They've seen better online products. Consumer internet products these days set a pretty high bar in design and user experience and if you don't have that, it will be difficult to get them to use your product.

Re: Ask HN: Do quality web graphics, design and layout actually help businesses?

#36

Post by piotr_krzyzek »

paolomaffei wrote: post #29
MehdiEG wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"1. Someone in the executives actually likes the site the way it is." That one is probably the main reason why companies stick with awful-looking websites. I'll never cease to be amazed at how many people have no design sense or eye whatsoever and genuinely cannot see the difference between an absolutely horrendous-looking logo or page and a well designed one. In fact, not only can they not see the difference but I o…

if they also sell to people that think those flyers are amazing then is it really a problem for them?

100% agree with this statement, though my followup question to that is: do we have to stick with mediocrity? Or can/should better design/quality outpace and outperform the current drivel?

Re: Ask HN: Do quality web graphics, design and layout actually help businesses?

#37

Post by alsomike »

I work in a highly competitive industry, and often get this question at networking events and conferences from people in my industry. I like to see them succeed, so I give them this advice: don't worry about your website! It's just an extra cost that doesn't contribution to your bottom line or add value for your customers. That goes not just for web, but any form of style or presentation. Here are my tips for cutting out the waste:

- Company logo - don't need one, just use your name

- Business cards - new hires can design their own using web-based tools provided by the printing company

- Product photography - business was conducted just fine before the invention of the camera, using words to describe products

- Web design - have an admin type up the information in Word, save it as HTML and upload it to your website. All on one page is fine.

- Sales brochures - a print-out of your website

- Language - we don't spend a lot of time on copy editing, spell checking, correct punctuation. UX consultants who want to sell you their services will try to show you research showing how these things effect conversion rates, like how Zappos improved their bottom line by spellchecking customer reviews. Don't fall for these tricks!

- Suits - our company culture discourages wearing suits, even for sales people who meet with prospects. Controversial? Yes, but it lets everyone know that we have laser focus on our delivering value and cutting out wasteful spending on superficial things. Sweat pants are extremely cost-effective, easy to maintain and functional.

- Personal grooming - another area to reduce costs is on expensive and time-consuming haircuts, showering, shaving, make-up, shining shoes, dentistry, etc. These are nice, but humans survived just fine for thousands of years without these superficial aesthetic concerns.

Remember, in business, nothing else matters but delivering value for your customer. Consultants who want to sell you their services will tell you differently, but customers really only care about your product or service and couldn't care less about your website colors, logo or how your salespeople look and smell. These are added costs for trivial things that don't contribute to your bottom line. I recommend this approach to all my current competitors and also to new people trying to enter my field.

Re: Ask HN: Do quality web graphics, design and layout actually help businesses?

#38

Post by adrianhoward »

First define what you mean by "quality" and "design" :-)

For many people outside the design/ux field "design" is something that happens after the product is defined and created. It's just about the visuals - "making something pretty". For people inside the design/ux field design it's as much about understanding the users, figuring out the problem, defining the product, figuring out the behaviour, etc. Not that the visual design aspect is unimportant - but it's only a part of what "design" is all about.

For many people outside the design/ux field a "quality" design is something that looks like something Apple would produce. For people inside the design/UX field a quality design is one that works. You don't design the advertisements for a MacDonald's burger the same way you design the adverts for the latest iPhone. Their aimed at different audiences with different goals. One isn't "good" and the other "bad".

So - does quality design help business? It depends (the favourite designer answer :-)

If you have a rubbish product then getting in a visual designer at the last minute to make it pretty probably isn't going to help much. "Putting lipstick on a pig" is the phrase you'll often hear designers use about this sort of project.

If you have an okay product with a truly terrible visual design - you may find a purely visual revamp can help. I've seen a purely visual revamp of a terrible web app admin system cause users to praise all the wonderful new functionality - which was always there before they just couldn't find it :-)

On the other hand - unless the UI is awful - you may find that a purely visual revamp does relatively little beyond make the designer not want to vomit (in the same way that having a big-ball-of-mud codebase doesn't really effect the users experience either, just makes the developers feel ill).

You may find that a pure visual redesign can help you reposition your product so that it better attracts the right audience. I worked on a project once where we very deliberately moved to a "less pretty" visual look since the "nice" design was putting off the low-budget end of the market.

The real value from design, and folk in the design/UX profession, is when you get them in from the start. All that "get out of the building" stuff that Steve Blank goes on about, all the product/market fit stuff that Eric Reis emphasises. That's what good UX/design folk do - and the good ones are very, very good at it (and have a stack of tools and techniques to help).

Re: Ask HN: Do quality web graphics, design and layout actually help businesses?

#39

Post by adrianhoward »

patio11 wrote: post #13

There are many roads to the cheese. Cold calling, for example, works. I've never done it and if I suggested it to my (very successful) clients they'd laugh in my face, but it is an enormous business. A lot of businesses can get away with terrible websites for the same reason I can get away with terrible business cards: 99.8% of the business is elsewhere. If you're Nobu your website could be done by a 4th grader in Fl…

what designers like about designs is in many cases orthogonal to their effectiveness in convincing customers to enter business relationships

You have there, in a nutshell, the difference between the outlook of good and bad designers.

Bad designers care about whether they like the design.

Good designers care about whether the end-user likes the design.

Re: Ask HN: Do quality web graphics, design and layout actually help businesses?

#40

Post by derefr »

adrianhoward wrote: post #39
patio11 wrote: post #13

There are many roads to the cheese. Cold calling, for example, works. I've never done it and if I suggested it to my (very successful) clients they'd laugh in my face, but it is an enormous business. A lot of businesses can get away with terrible websites for the same reason I can get away with terrible business cards: 99.8% of the business is elsewhere. If you're Nobu your website could be done by a 4th grader in Fl…

what designers like about designs is in many cases orthogonal to their effectiveness in convincing customers to enter business relationships You have there, in a nutshell, the difference between the outlook of good and bad designers. Bad designers care about whether they like the design. Good designers care about whether the end-user likes the design.

I think, more often, the dichotomy is between idealistic designers and pragmatic designers.

Idealistic designers care about whether the end-users (meaning the people who will, say, visit the website) like the design.

Pragmatic designers care about whether the client likes the design.

It's quite a bit harder to make money as an idealistic designer, unless you can wield conversion rate data at the client. If you're just one designer on a team working for an agency, who's been given a "brand policy" document by the client? No chance.

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