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Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

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Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#31

Post by giantg2 »

al_borland wrote: post #8

I think about this a lot, but my thoughts always go to aging. As long as my mind and fingers still work, I can work on a computer until I’m old and gray. The physical requirements are minimal. Could you shadow your neighbor (or someone else in the trade you be interested in) for a few days to get a better idea of the realities of the job and if you’d enjoy it? Also, pay attention to their frustrations and issues and…

"As long as my mind and fingers still work, I can work on a computer until I’m old and gray."

This is a big assumption. Why would they hire an older guy? They can have cheaper people more willing to put up with BS by hiring under 5 yoe or offshore.

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#32

Post by giantg2 »

aristofun wrote: post #28

This sounds like programming was not your thing in the first place. You probably were there just for the money and fashion. Im not a born hacker myself, but this is something i can do better then the majority of the population. While i also can do many thinggs well with my hands - ill barely achieve same expert level as the best. So why bother.

Any programmer can program better than the majority of the population. Even if you define population as the population of programmers, being in the 51st percentile is still very grim.

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#33

Post by giantg2 »

aussiegreenie wrote: post #11

In Australia, the "Traffic Control person" (aka Lollipop person) earns AUD 125K (USD 79K) and even without any qualifications doing home maintenance such as painting, replacing washers on leaking taps, or assembling Ikea furniture earns up to $100,000 pa. People with PhD in Life Science struggle to get a job but people who have watched a few YouTubes earn huge wages. If I were advising a younger coder, I would sugges…

" I would suggest that they learn COBOL and get paid $150K "

The high paying COBOL jobs almost exclusively hire ex-employees who know the system. I knew COBOL from school and even making a couple small changes when I first started working. The people hiring specifically for COBOL want people with 25+ years of experience, familiarity with the specific system, and familiarity with the JCL or other aspects of the system.

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#34

Post by al_borland »

giantg2 wrote: post #31
al_borland wrote: post #8

I think about this a lot, but my thoughts always go to aging. As long as my mind and fingers still work, I can work on a computer until I’m old and gray. The physical requirements are minimal. Could you shadow your neighbor (or someone else in the trade you be interested in) for a few days to get a better idea of the realities of the job and if you’d enjoy it? Also, pay attention to their frustrations and issues and…

"As long as my mind and fingers still work, I can work on a computer until I’m old and gray." This is a big assumption. Why would they hire an older guy? They can have cheaper people more willing to put up with BS by hiring under 5 yoe or offshore.

One good person with experience can beat a several who aren’t so good.

My old boss would give one of the newer/cheaper people a task and they would flounder for months on it. After about 3 months he’d ask me; I’d have it done and back to him in a couple hours. This happened countless times. While I get paid more than them, 2 hours of my time is cheaper than 3 months of their time… not to mention the value of faster turn around.

There are also many problems I can see coming and avoid, because of experience, where a younger person has a good chance of hitting the issue head on.

You’re also talking about hiring. I have a job and can keep it, assuming my mind and fingers still work. I’m not planning on interviewing much. That said, I did have a FAANG reach out to me just last week. I wouldn’t call myself old and gray yet, but I have aged into the protected class.

As a hedge, I save my money and keep my expenses low.

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#35

Post by giantg2 »

al_borland wrote: post #34
giantg2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As long as my mind and fingers still work, I can work on a computer until I’m old and gray." This is a big assumption. Why would they hire an older guy? They can have cheaper people more willing to put up with BS by hiring under 5 yoe or offshore.

One good person with experience can beat a several who aren’t so good. My old boss would give one of the newer/cheaper people a task and they would flounder for months on it. After about 3 months he’d ask me; I’d have it done and back to him in a couple hours. This happened countless times. While I get paid more than them, 2 hours of my time is cheaper than 3 months of their time… not to mention the value of faster t…

Sure, but the general consensus is that companies and managers are not as willing to hire the 15+ yoe crowd due to their cost. The new people you describe sound like they are bad, not just new. If you have FAANG coming to you, then it sounds like you're in a different class. If someone is just better than most, like 1 SD above, then it'll still be rough.

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#36

Post by lmiller1990 »

I have thought about it - I talked to many of my friends in trades. They are all jealous of how good I have it. Most of them are earning ~70% of what I do, often spend ~2 hours commuting, hard on the body, risk of injuries... maybe you can transition to a orthogonal field in software to change things up?

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#37

Post by paulcole »

aristofun wrote: post #28

This sounds like programming was not your thing in the first place. You probably were there just for the money and fashion. Im not a born hacker myself, but this is something i can do better then the majority of the population. While i also can do many thinggs well with my hands - ill barely achieve same expert level as the best. So why bother.

> You probably were there just for the money and fashion.

So?

You think plumbers do it for the artistry, honor, and love of the craft?

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#38

Post by brailsafe »

Yep, it's what I'm spending my time trying to find the best path toward, since I'm out of work and it doesn't seem hopeful anymore. Might get a warehouse job or something in the meantime if I can, but my resume is shit and considering just taking a fundamentals course and applying for apprenticeships.

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#39

Post by brailsafe »

giantg2 wrote: post #35
al_borland wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One good person with experience can beat a several who aren’t so good. My old boss would give one of the newer/cheaper people a task and they would flounder for months on it. After about 3 months he’d ask me; I’d have it done and back to him in a couple hours. This happened countless times. While I get paid more than them, 2 hours of my time is cheaper than 3 months of their time… not to mention the value of faster t…

Sure, but the general consensus is that companies and managers are not as willing to hire the 15+ yoe crowd due to their cost. The new people you describe sound like they are bad, not just new. If you have FAANG coming to you, then it sounds like you're in a different class. If someone is just better than most, like 1 SD above, then it'll still be rough.

The cost of everyone has and will continue dropping. Among the people who'll be cheaper, more experienced out of work people who already got into the shit housing market early will outbid younger more desperate people who can't afford to take cheaper salaries.

Re: Ask HN: Have you thought about leaving programming for the trades?

#40

Post by brailsafe »

rozenmd wrote: post #15
aussiegreenie wrote: post #11

In Australia, the "Traffic Control person" (aka Lollipop person) earns AUD 125K (USD 79K) and even without any qualifications doing home maintenance such as painting, replacing washers on leaking taps, or assembling Ikea furniture earns up to $100,000 pa. People with PhD in Life Science struggle to get a job but people who have watched a few YouTubes earn huge wages. If I were advising a younger coder, I would sugges…

As a fellow Aussie that left the motherland, I'd advise folks to learn JavaScript and earn 4x that (in AUD) in the US

As an out of work, albeit Canadian JavaScript programmer, I think that ship has sailed
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