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Ask HN: Would doing a coding bootcamp be a horrible idea?

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Re: Ask HN: Would doing a coding bootcamp be a horrible idea?

#31

Post by jasode »

>some python and tad bit of SQL [...] so I’m entering unemployed with about 6-12 months of living expenses in the bank [...] enroll in a coding bootcamp? [...] despite costing $10k+

With limited funds as a constraint, it isn't a good idea to pay thousands for a bootcamp that doesn't have a high probability of placing you in a job.

Instead, you can save your money and learn mainstream Python/SQL/Javascript/etc for free with resources like Youtube, blogs, StackOverflow, etc. Some more tutorials that are not free but still low cost include subscriptions to Pluralsight, Lynda/LinkedinLearning, etc.

If I was hiring, I'd prefer Candidate A that used the unemployed time to self-teach from 2 months of Youtube videos and developed a few projects on Github that he/she can explain -- over Candidate B that just graduated from a 2 month bootcamp.

In addition to all the tutorials on "Youtube University" being free ... it lets you gauge your true motivation and determination on the programming topics. This self-assessment could give you more evidence to reject (or enthusiastically enroll in) a coding bootcamp.

Re: Ask HN: Would doing a coding bootcamp be a horrible idea?

#32

Post by azangru »

> I know in the best of times these programs were tenuous and full of questionable promises

Screw promises.

A coding bootcamp is the best guided way, other than college, of acquiring basic knowledge and skills of a software developer. It will not guarantee that after graduating from it you will find a job; although some bootcamps may have certain arrangements. What a good bootcamp does guarantee though is that after completing it, you will have sufficient knowledge to build, say, a mildly complex website, or do some data analysis tasks. In good market conditions, this makes the graduate somewhat employable as entry-level software engineer.

There are plenty of free online resources that you can use instead. But that requires a lot of discipline; and a curriculum to know what you need to be studying.

Re: Ask HN: Would doing a coding bootcamp be a horrible idea?

#33

Post by globalise83 »

If I were you I would look for product owner roles in a tech company building a product for sales operations. That way you can a) get paid again soon b) really use and build on your sales operations background c) work closely with a development team and see their code and how they work, d) do some non-production prototyping of new features etc. which can help you learn a bit of coding without actually destroying your company and e) learn how to explore and analyse business problems and requirements (which can get quite technical!). Based on that, you'd have a great basis on which to decide whether you want to actually become a developer, or whether you are happy helping a development team decide what to work on in an area of interest to you personally, which in my view is just as rewarding.

Re: Ask HN: Would doing a coding bootcamp be a horrible idea?

#34

Post by iLoveOncall »

Please take a look at the detailed reports that the bootcamps share about the outcome for their students, you will see that the numbers on the homepage and the actual numbers are so far that it's basically fraud.

For a bootcamp that announces 95% of students finding a job in the field you will see that in reality they remove from their numbers the students that:

- Did not finish the bootcamp,

- "Chose" to get a job out of the field of the bootcamp after the end (as if it was a choice and not because nobody wants to hire them in the field),

- Missed a single of their monthly status check meetups (regardless of the reason),

- Missed the target (even just once) that their "career advisors" give them like applying to a minimum of 10 jobs in the field every single day,

- Refused a job offer they received (a lot are offered a very low-pay job to become an instructor at the same bootcamp).

If you do the total, they basically eliminate 80% of their students from the final calculation to reach those 95%.

I did a dive-deep during the height of the hiring frenzy and if you only looked at "got a job in the field / were students at the bootcamp", the success rate was at best 20% (for "top tier" bootcamps).

And of those that do find a job, it is almost always insanely low pay (I don't think a single one was above $100K in NYC for the bootcamps I looked at).

Needless to say that nowadays you simply have not chance to get a job after a bootcamp. The whole industry is a scam.

Re: Ask HN: Would doing a coding bootcamp be a horrible idea?

#35

Post by tsingy »

Was in the same boat, but without money, so I made this [open source bootcamp](https://github.com/Lesabotsy/bootcamp). It has everything to get you from 0 to a competent junior and you would be able to pass interviews. All free resources, in English, from some of the best universities in the world. Now I work as a back-end java developer, fully remote btw.

Re: Ask HN: Would doing a coding bootcamp be a horrible idea?

#36

Post by jamesliudotcc »

jasode wrote: post #31

>some python and tad bit of SQL [...] so I’m entering unemployed with about 6-12 months of living expenses in the bank [...] enroll in a coding bootcamp? [...] despite costing $10k+ With limited funds as a constraint, it isn't a good idea to pay thousands for a bootcamp that doesn't have a high probability of placing you in a job. Instead, you can save your money and learn mainstream Python/SQL/Javascript/etc for fre…

You have to know yourself a little to decide between free Youtube university and bootcamp. I think of myself as a self-starter, but at some point, I had plateaued in my learning and needed some fresh momentum.

Could I have kept learning on my own? Sure. But the butt-in-seat for 9 hours a day at a bootcamp accelerated my learning quite a bit. Was it worth the $14,000? For me, yes. I got to being a hireable junior developer many months faster, so just in terms of runway, it was worth it. You'll have to make your own assessment about how much shorter of a runway you'll have, and how much quicker you'll get to takeoff with a bootcamp for yourself.

Still, it's tough to recommend a bootcamp in 2024. I did some writing about it. https://james07.bearblog.dev/how-to-keep-coding-bootcamps-re.... It isn't so much, will gen-AI take all the junior jobs (though, to some extent, yes, it has)? It is more, only gen-AI-wielding juniors will be worth hiring. At the very least, the bootcamp you're considering should have their story straight about how they will help you learn with gen-AI. They've had a year to figure this out, or not. If they seem lost about it, stay far away.

Re: Ask HN: Would doing a coding bootcamp be a horrible idea?

#37

Post by moi2388 »

Id suggest going to something like udemy and buying a Python or JavaScript course for 20 bucks to see if you even like it.

I don’t know if they look for bootcamp on your resume in the US, but here it would be nothing but a giant waste of money unless you cannot do self study

Re: Ask HN: Would doing a coding bootcamp be a horrible idea?

#38

Post by dirtybirdnj »

Yes it is not a great idea.

AI isn't the problem, it's the saturation of folks like myself with 10+yrs of development who are clawing and fighting to the death for what jobs are out there. Market SUCKS right now.

I am THANKFUL for my current gig, but I wanted to add something my current employer (co-workers) mentioned to me. They were surprised at the high regard that people had only completed bootcamps held themselves.

Those running these organizations are selling a lie. You cannot make a baby with four women in three months. There is no replacement for years of experience in industry. Period.

I think they are an incredibly useful resource, I myself was a TA for one that started locally during their first cohort.

If you want to learn stuff, start building things right away. Don't build too big, find challenges that are appropriate to your skill level (BCs are good at this). Find others who will look at / inspect / find ways to break your work and use these opportunities to learn / grow / figure out what to do differently.

Repeat until job. Either the work you will do can attract some attention, or you will inadvertantly prepare yourself for the opportunity you didn't see coming. Stay busy. Keep working. Share what you are doing.

You don't need to pay 10k for the education you seek. It's just going to take every bit of effort, mental acuity and sanity you have left. You CAN do it but there is risk of burnout. Read my comment history if you wanna know what that looks like.

Re: Ask HN: Would doing a coding bootcamp be a horrible idea?

#39

Post by burningion »

I know everyone is mentioning whether or not you should do a bootcamp, but I’d suggest a different approach?

Get a freelance job. Do something on fiverr. Get yourself solving real problems for people. Figure it out, by doing the job itself.

If you’re not confident you can do it, try searching and doing a freelance request on your own.

If you can stick with it to the end, you can build confidence for the next thing.

Best case you end up with more cash and connections for work. Worst case you realize you’re not into the work.

Re: Ask HN: Would doing a coding bootcamp be a horrible idea?

#40

Post by hersko »

If you have that itch to build cool stuff, then go for it.

I was in a similar position where i could not stand my accounting job, but loved programming which i had been learning on the side. I quit my job, went to a bootcamp, and it was the best decision i ever made. It's not going to be easy, but if you stick with it it can be extremely rewarding, and not just financially speaking.

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