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Ask HN: What is the least obnoxious way to ask for cookie permissions?

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Re: Ask HN: What is the least obnoxious way to ask for cookie permissions?

#31

Post by mnw21cam »

snmx999 wrote: post #19
pocketarc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're adding a cookie banner for legal reasons, that means you're covering against GDPR, which says that you're -not- allowed to refuse service based on someone not wanting cookies that are not necessary for providing the service (e.g. all the analytics/tracking crap). You're obligated to give them a way to opt out while continuing to use your service, and it should be as easy to decline as it is to accept[0]. Th…

Some of Germany's largest online newspapers, like Bild ( https://www.bild.de/ ) demand either that you subscribe to their online paper or consent to all cookies. As far as I see there is no way to reject the cookies.

That's only because Schrems hasn't got round to suing them yet.

Re: Ask HN: What is the least obnoxious way to ask for cookie permissions?

#32

Post by Pet_Ant »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #29
starbugs wrote: post #4

The best thing one can do is not use cookies -> no need for a consent banner. If that's not an option, the next best thing is to have an overlay that is as honest as possible and most importantly provides not only an "Accept all", but also a "Reject all" button. Don't use dark patterns, basically. That is, use the same color, style and size for each of those buttons. My experience is that most users are so used to th…

Except this is not the question. Why is it so hard for people to understand cookies are absolutely needed even if you just want to calculate retention or number of unique visitors.

> even if you just want to calculate retention or unique visitors.

Why is it so hard to for people to understand that I just want you to serve me the page and bugger off? It's like justifying embedding GPS tracking in pamphlets that people hand out on the street.

I don't want to be tracked period.

Is it that hard?

Re: Ask HN: What is the least obnoxious way to ask for cookie permissions?

#33

Post by IanCal »

simonw wrote: post #25
jacobsimon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how server side analytics works without cookies?

You log the IP address, referrer, user agent and the requested page URL but you don't set a unique cookie to identify the user. This still gets you plenty of actionable analytics information: where geographically people are located (via GeoIP), what pages are most popular, what platforms (including desktop vs mobile) people are using. I've been using https://plausible.io for analytics on a bunch of my sites for a cou…

You need to make sure you're happy with how you're using peoples data and that it falls within the legitimate interest justification (https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-re...) IP addresses can be considered personal data.

edit - make sure you've actively made this decision and documented the assessment.

Re: Ask HN: What is the least obnoxious way to ask for cookie permissions?

#34

Post by bigger_inside »

the frustration part sets in when I start reading the page, and then a whole-page popup interruts that experience and makes me disable cookies. Second frsutration is when I have to go dg for the "no". At this point, I reevaluate whether I really want to read this page or not, and if it's not essential, I close the entire page at this point mouthing a silent "fy".

SO, as others have already said, definitely a "reject all" and be done with it right in the beginning, without the need for any forther clicks. Better yet if the banner is just a sliver on the side that doesn't interrupt my reading experience (clearly, as long as I didn't click "yes" on cookies, it can't set any; so it would be default-no, allows me to read, and if I want to click in the corner for something else, I can. Even better if it has an "X" to close that unintrusive side window, and of course the X gets treated as "reject all".

Re: Ask HN: What is the least obnoxious way to ask for cookie permissions?

#35

Post by starbugs »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #29
starbugs wrote: post #4

The best thing one can do is not use cookies -> no need for a consent banner. If that's not an option, the next best thing is to have an overlay that is as honest as possible and most importantly provides not only an "Accept all", but also a "Reject all" button. Don't use dark patterns, basically. That is, use the same color, style and size for each of those buttons. My experience is that most users are so used to th…

Except this is not the question. Why is it so hard for people to understand cookies are absolutely needed even if you just want to calculate retention or number of unique visitors.

I'd like to point out that I answered the question even if not using cookies is not an option.

But to elaborate a bit: At least in Germany (and I believe this applies more or less everywhere) if you install a 1st-party tracking method based on 1st-party cookies, that doesn't fall under the 3rd-party consent requirement and you don't need consent. That means you can track your valuable retention numbers and won't need a consent banner. It's a common misunderstanding that you need that consent for all cookies. You only need it for cookies that aren't required to do your business. And 3rd-party cookies aren't.

It's just that marketing typically don't want to spend any money on this, because these retention numbers turn out to not be enough value to justify the investment. I wonder if they are as valuable as you described at all.

Edit: I should have said 1st-party tracking that doesn't collect personally identifiable information (PII).

Re: Ask HN: What is the least obnoxious way to ask for cookie permissions?

#36

Post by mnw21cam »

warrenm wrote: post #3

Personally ... I think the best option (if you have to have cookies (and there are plenty of reasons you may want/need them)) is to have screen-wide, contrasting-color, short-top-to-bottom bar with a single OK or Accept button for dismissal Do not give people options about cookies - either they accept (and dismiss the notice), or they leave When I am presented with cookie options , I start to wonder why there are "un…

> Do not give people options about cookies - either they accept (and dismiss the notice), or they leave

That's outright and explicitly illegal.

(I just thought I'd make that point in a quicker and simpler way than the otherwise great sister post.)

Re: Ask HN: What is the least obnoxious way to ask for cookie permissions?

#37

Post by IanCal »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #29
starbugs wrote: post #4

The best thing one can do is not use cookies -> no need for a consent banner. If that's not an option, the next best thing is to have an overlay that is as honest as possible and most importantly provides not only an "Accept all", but also a "Reject all" button. Don't use dark patterns, basically. That is, use the same color, style and size for each of those buttons. My experience is that most users are so used to th…

Except this is not the question. Why is it so hard for people to understand cookies are absolutely needed even if you just want to calculate retention or number of unique visitors.

> Why is it so hard for people to understand cookies are absolutely needed even if you just want to calculate retention or number of unique visitors.

Yeah you don't need to do that though. You want to.

Re: Ask HN: What is the least obnoxious way to ask for cookie permissions?

#38

Post by Yizahi »

The GDPR law is quite clear - it is MANDATORY to have an equal way to reject consent as to grant it. So basically you must have equally designed button "accept" and "reject" on the same banner frame.

See, the problem is solved even before it appeared - if your company will comply with the law then the banner would not be obnoxious by design.

Re: Ask HN: What is the least obnoxious way to ask for cookie permissions?

#40

Post by diffeomorphism »

snmx999 wrote: post #19
pocketarc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're adding a cookie banner for legal reasons, that means you're covering against GDPR, which says that you're -not- allowed to refuse service based on someone not wanting cookies that are not necessary for providing the service (e.g. all the analytics/tracking crap). You're obligated to give them a way to opt out while continuing to use your service, and it should be as easy to decline as it is to accept[0]. Th…

Some of Germany's largest online newspapers, like Bild ( https://www.bild.de/ ) demand either that you subscribe to their online paper or consent to all cookies. As far as I see there is no way to reject the cookies.

Ruled illegal already for other websites:

https://noyb.eu/de/pay-or-okay-tech-news-site-heisede-illega...

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