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Ask HN: Career in trades for possible ex-programmers

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Re: Ask HN: Career in trades for possible ex-programmers

#31

Post by bitwize »

leoedin wrote: post #20
MassiveBonk51 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get out of the loop? Recruiters seem to want lots of experience for embedded roles for example.

The embedded world is crying out for people experienced in modern software teams. A big chunk of it is one man bands who know C and maybe some C++. Most embedded projects could benefit from unit testing, automated build systems and modern memory safe languages. If you're interested in a job in embedded you could learn it on the side. Buy a dev board (from one of the main vendors - ST, NXP or TI) and write an applicat…

> The embedded world is crying out for people experienced in modern software teams.

The embedded world requires VERY specialized skills, and pays significantly less than enterprise webshit (let alone FAANG webshit).

I'd LOVE to get into embedded, but I can't afford to make 2/3 to half of what I make now.

Re: Ask HN: Career in trades for possible ex-programmers

#32

Post by mindslight »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #27
tekla wrote: post #21

I wonder how HN would respond if I asked "heya HN, what programming jobs would fit someone who has 10 years of TIG welding" This is effectively what the OP is asking.

The most interesting thing about programmers is our unshakeable confidence that we could easily do any else's job. Where does that even come from? Coding is not even the hardest job I've done.

Continually hopping between varying levels of abstraction and different problem domains. Programming instills one with a decent universal ontological model for understanding things in general.

And honestly, I haven't met many things that I can't do when I put my mind to it. The real difficulty is doing them quickly.

Re: Ask HN: Career in trades for possible ex-programmers

#33

Post by pavel_lishin »

m4zey wrote: post #25

What about permaculture/gardening? IMO working with nature is a lot like programming. The genetic material (seeds) are like packages, the soil cycle is like memory management, and the water and sun are like your system's resources. You get the satisfaction of building something beautiful (and eating it). You are constantly learning about genetics, variants, processes and the language of plants. There are role models…

Amateur gardener here. The hardest part about this is time.

One thing I love about software is that I write it then run it and see the result. My turnaround time is often measured in seconds.

My garden? Weeks, at minimum, before I begin to see what results my work has wrought. Iteration takes months, if not years, depending on your climate.

However, it does feel very rewarding, doing something with your hands that results in something very tangible. Bringing in a bowl of lettuce, cucumbers, and tomatoes that you can immediately toss into a salad feels great.

Re: Ask HN: Career in trades for possible ex-programmers

#34

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

leoedin wrote: post #20
MassiveBonk51 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get out of the loop? Recruiters seem to want lots of experience for embedded roles for example.

The embedded world is crying out for people experienced in modern software teams. A big chunk of it is one man bands who know C and maybe some C++. Most embedded projects could benefit from unit testing, automated build systems and modern memory safe languages. If you're interested in a job in embedded you could learn it on the side. Buy a dev board (from one of the main vendors - ST, NXP or TI) and write an applicat…

> A big chunk of it is one man bands who know C and maybe some C++

The parallel here to "enterprise development" is the small companies that have one guy who knows C# or VB. Pay's also about the same, as is the (non-existent) level of process automation.

I agree with your point, but I don't want compare apples to oranges. The "embedded world" that's "crying out for people experienced in modern software teams" is the one that's doing large projects with teams of 5-20 developers, not the ones with one or two. If you want to find those teams you'll need to look at the projects that require lots of people like Defense or complex medical devices, etc.

I've been doing embedded systems for my entire career and TBH, I don't much care if a candidate has ever seen a dev board or used a logic analyzer. It's a nice to have, don't get me wrong, but I care a lot more that they understand SOLID, version control, unit testing, can speak intelligently about why they love or hate TDD, etc. We typically already have people with enough low-level experience to build hardware abstractions that the "enterprise people" can program to.

These days, someone who understands software security on interconnected systems is a much more interesting candidate than one who can bit-twiddle on an 8051.

Re: Ask HN: Career in trades for possible ex-programmers

#35

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

nalydmerc wrote: post #22
leoedin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The embedded world is crying out for people experienced in modern software teams. A big chunk of it is one man bands who know C and maybe some C++. Most embedded projects could benefit from unit testing, automated build systems and modern memory safe languages. If you're interested in a job in embedded you could learn it on the side. Buy a dev board (from one of the main vendors - ST, NXP or TI) and write an applicat…

Hi, one man band here doing firmware at a small company. Could you elaborate on any particular skills, or tips for this sort of thing? Right now I'm trying to learn how to integrate unit tests into our newer/future projects, and setting up a Jenkins server for builds. I'm learning a lot, but it's difficult since I'm the only guy that understands firmware at my company, and these are fairly large projects to take on a…

Short answer, as someone who has BTDT (although as the tech. lead): you need to get management buy-in to upgrade your processes. Doing it yourself either leads to failure or resentment at working too hard for too little appreciation.

Re: Ask HN: Career in trades for possible ex-programmers

#36

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

pickitupsnake wrote: post #15

There will be a lot of opportunity in semi-automating residential/commercial property maintenance. Think robot mowers, smart irrigation/fertilization, smart composting ect. Lot of adoption potential from high-income Eco-conscious people that have already bought EVs.

> There will be ...

How does this help someone today?

Re: Ask HN: Career in trades for possible ex-programmers

#37

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

MassiveBonk51 wrote: post #9

CNC seems like a potential intersection of programming and trades. 3d printing etc might let you carry over some skills.

It is. But head on over to the CNC forums at PracticalMachinist.com to hear the machine programmers bitch about how little they're paid and being nothing more than babysitters for large machine tools.

Re: Ask HN: Career in trades for possible ex-programmers

#38

Post by jimmychoozyx »

I'm late-30s.

About to start working on a personal project involving cement: making planters for small fruit trees.

The reason: to learn more about cement, since my plan is to set up concrete piers for a future cabin. And, to eventually learn masonry for making a concrete + rock house.

I do have a bit of back pain already from a desk IT job. However I am relatively fit and I think with more calisthenics I'll improve my back & ab muscles to reduce my back pain.

Re: Ask HN: Career in trades for possible ex-programmers

#39

Post by [deleted] »

willcipriano wrote: post #13
MassiveBonk51 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get out of the loop? Recruiters seem to want lots of experience for embedded roles for example.

For me, I can do frontend and I do it during my job but I put backend engineer on my resume to find jobs that aren't "move the button over 3 pixels".

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Career in trades for possible ex-programmers

#40

Post by appplication »

LightRailTycoon wrote: post #11

The hard truth about the trades is you need to start young, while you're body is able to take the punishment, so you have time to learn the skills to take a less punishing senior/ownership role by the time your back/legs/arms start to give out. This isn't insurmountable, but it needs to be planned for. Look for jobs where your background gives you more of a leg up, and are done indoors, with a stronger emphasis on he…

This is absolutely true. I spend some time in trades before tech. I recall my first day, squeezing into a rocky and mildewy crawl space with barely enough room to flip over, only to fix up some busted plumbing using some very strong smelling chemicals with little ventilation. I knew then this wasn’t going to be a long term fit for me.

Trades work can absolutely destroy you. It’s also not really avoidable with good ergonomics - there are no good ergonomics. Some situations are just going to require you to do really physically awkward uncomfortable things to get the job done. There’s also the general slow erosion of health. Exposure to chemicals, saw dust, metal shavings, things getting in your eyes, getting poked by random nails, rolling over onto a bit of glass, tweaking your back trying to prevent a piece of lumber sliding off the roof, being constantly dehydrated and sunburned, etc. There is a reason tradesmen look like tradesmen. It’s the toll they pay.

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