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Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

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Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#31
> 1. Humans work 9-5 (or some schedule), but ChatGPT is available always and works instantly. Now, when I have some idea I want to try out - I start working on it immediately with the help of AI. Earlier I just used to put a note in the todo-list and stash it for the next day.

This is a time management problem and a setting boundaries problem. When I leave work, if I have an idea (work related) I jot it into a notebook to review the next day. After I leave (no later than 1630 every day) I am not obligated to work, so I don't. I exercise, read, study, spend time with my wife, play with the cats, whatever I feel like doing. If they want me to work 24x7, they can increase my pay by 20x because they'll only get a year of use out of me and I can retire with that income in a year or so without issue. They pay for 8 hours, they get 8 hours.

> 2. The outputs with ChatGPT are so fast, that my "review load" is too high. At times it feels like we are working for ChatGPT and not the other way around.

Then slow down. See my response to (1). Your time management skills are in desperate need of development. Ask less of ChatGPT. Only ask enough to complete an objective, no more. Don't ask it for information faster than you can process it. And if you feel the need to ask it a million and one questions, delegate processing its responses to others (bring back your juniors).

> 3. ChatGPT has the habit of throwing new knowledge back at you. Google does that too, but this feels 10x of Google. Sometimes it is overwhelming. Good thing is we learn a lot, bad thing is that if often slows down our decision making.

> 4. I tried to put a schedule to use it - but when everybody has access to this tech, I have a genuine fear of missing out.

FOMO is real, but like most fears it's a waste. There is no existential crisis. You are not being chased by a bear, you appear to be a professional so you have steady income you know where your next meal is coming from and have shelter. Your fear is unwarranted, even if normal. Seek out counseling or therapy to learn how to manage fear and anxiety more effectively.

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a pretty good take - you found that you could 'get rid of juniors' by working in an unsustainable way. Why not work with now-super-productive junior employees that can spread the cognitive load? It would seem odd if this were the one time in the history of computing where a big productivity boost didn't just lead to increasingly big/complex software.

> Why not work with now-super-productive junior employees that can spread the cognitive load? It's all about scaling up or out. Having co-workers is like scaling out, you have to worry about aligning your goals, there's a lot of communication overhead in general. Using ChatGPT is like scaling up, you're just upgrading your skills and intelligence and you still have very low latency as there is only one mind in contro…

As the OP's problems suggest, you can only scale "up" with ChatGPT to a certain point before it starts to introduce new productivity problems and even problems related to burnout and being able to properly digest and understand everything being thrown at you. With respect to teams, it also introduces risk by ensuring that larger workloads that may previously have been shared by multiple people are concentrated to a single person.

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#33
Do people really think they don't need juniors because your IDE has a better auto complete? ChatGPT and LLMs are very cool but I'm surprised that people think like this. It just makes your juniors more productive and you can have them do more.

Github copilot and other tools help you scale up, not out. At the end of the day teams may be smaller, but someone needs to guide it.

I'm not sure what you do, but I can't see it for most SWE jobs. These posts make me question whether people understand llms or have zero quality controls at their workplace.

It almost feels like every day people just make up wild stories that seem untrue.

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#34

Don't discard the juniors, maybe ask them to process your prompts for you. That'll give you some space. I feel the opposite: I had a great experience asking GPT-4 to do some tasks for me and have been feeling like I'm missing out ever since by not using it more often. However, I'm wary of posting work-related code into it so I either have to come up with similar examples, which is time-consuming or ask it conceptual…

> I'm wary of posting work-related code into it

I'm always curious when I see this. Is it about potential IP in the code? References to clients in the code? Secrets?

In my last job they were worried about it too, but decided the cons outweighed the pros. Some of our code was client-specific (CanvaMapper etc.), but we would remove brand names and then go for it.

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#35
post #17

I’m reminded of the difference between being efficient vs effective. So much of the example use cases I see people — including myself — using GPT for are unimportant short-term tasks that necessarily take away head space and time from long-term important tasks. Those long-term important tasks are the hard ones requiring existing application context where I experience LLMs struggling. If we’re not careful we’ll get DD…

I think I get you, though I've been thinking of it rather differently.

I feel like a lot of the evergreen hype in computing is framework, practices, etc, that try to break things down into a system where any junior could then just fill in each piece and of course this always collides with the larger context problems.

Once you get to a certain point with such a system, either you have been paying attention all along or you have no idea what you've made and how to deal with a real cross cutting problem and you get to the point where the systems promise is really irrelevant, you succeed based on actual expertise you supposedly weren't going to need.

With GPT-like AI around its current level, I feel like some of these systems for breaking down programming projects are going to face an actual test now that the junior engineers to do it are some GPU costs that could be run in parallel and won't have the usual heterogeneous resources problems of testing with a real project team.

I'm not really sure if any systems will survive (or something learned in the process will make a good one) but I feel like it would be a proof of a holy grail that is suppose quite important, and just the refutation of many systems is itself a major disruption to the field.

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#36
post #30

Can you elaborate on how you're actually using ChatGPT? I'm a developer and I haven't felt any need to use ChatGPT constantly. What tasks are you delegating to ChatGPT that were previously done by humans? Most of my input from others is regarding current information specific to the task at hand. I don't see how ChatGPT would have any idea what I'm talking about. Do you have some specific examples you could share?

I would love to know this too. For me it’s involved too much manual copy-pasting of existing code for context, for it to feel like it’s doing much for me.

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#37
post #30

Can you elaborate on how you're actually using ChatGPT? I'm a developer and I haven't felt any need to use ChatGPT constantly. What tasks are you delegating to ChatGPT that were previously done by humans? Most of my input from others is regarding current information specific to the task at hand. I don't see how ChatGPT would have any idea what I'm talking about. Do you have some specific examples you could share?

I'd love to understand this too - my experience has been that I can generally write what I want faster than figuring out what prompt will get something close to right, and then editing/revising it to make it right.

Add to this the limited usefulness for generating code that's contextual - making some method deep inside a component tree that needs to reference a service class, and pick some dom elements to mutate etc... it requires knowledge and reasoning about the project and overall code structure.

I don't understand how folks are using it as a productivity booster, unless maybe as something like a better StackOverflow?

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#38
I use ChatGPT (with the paid GPT-4 model) for certain things when I'm stuck. I use it to explain/rephrase concepts that I'm confused about. I occasionally generate some anonymized stuff like short code snippets, devops configs, boilerplate, and tests.

Are people using it to pump out full apps and services or what? Anytime I've tried that the result quality is poor, even after lengthy explanations of what I'm asking it to build. Sure, sometimes it saves a little bit of time, but sometimes it also wastes my time by giving me nonsense or never zoning in on what I'm asking for. I don't see how people are becoming so much more "productive" with this, unless they're mostly talking about stuff like non-code written content.

It doesn't help that my company's infosec policies forbid putting any proprietary data or code into these AI tools, hence why I only ever ask for short snippets.

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#39
post #11

> 2. I no longer feel the need to hire juniors. This is a short-term positive and maybe a long-term negative. > A lot of stuff I used to delegate to fellow humans are now being delegated to ChatGPT. And I can get the results immediately and at any time I want. I agree that it cannot operate on its own. I still need to review and correct things. I have do that even when working with other humans. The only difference i…

You can witness this happening in the trades right now. A whole generation of people were told to goto college and to avoid the trades, and now here we are in possibly the most significant manpower drought the trades have ever experienced. And this has a ripple effect as the older generations retire out, and take their hard won experiences with them with nobody to pass their knowledge onto. Can't tell a carpenter to…

And yet the trades still have uneven access (or none at all) to health coverage, retirement planning options, etc.

As an American parent of young children, I keep being told that college is a scam and I should steer my kids toward the trades. 90+% of the time, I am being told this by a white-collar worker who went to college themselves, and is just bloviating.

When we reach a real crisis point, severe enough to actually consider granting skilled tradespeople access to a fraction of the privilege enjoyed by white-collar workers, then I might consider nudging my kids toward electrician or plumbing work. But under the current social caste system, of course I am going to do everything possible to give my kids access to college and steer them that way.

I believe that virtually everyone, white-collar and blue-collar alike, quietly feels likewise. We make a pretense of giving contrary advice, but mostly just in hopes that other people will move in that direction for us. To take the bullet and help with this imbalance, and also to relieve the intense competition our own kids face.

Re: Ask HN: Burnout because of ChatGPT?

#40
post #30

Can you elaborate on how you're actually using ChatGPT? I'm a developer and I haven't felt any need to use ChatGPT constantly. What tasks are you delegating to ChatGPT that were previously done by humans? Most of my input from others is regarding current information specific to the task at hand. I don't see how ChatGPT would have any idea what I'm talking about. Do you have some specific examples you could share?

I have a bunch of examples myself. Here's a good recent one (prompts are linked about half way down the post): https://simonwillison.net/2023/Aug/6/annotated-presentations...

A few more:

- "Write a Python script with no extra dependencies which can take a list of URLs and use a HEAD request to find the size of each one and then add those all up" https://simonwillison.net/2023/Aug/3/weird-world-of-llms/#us...

- "Show me code examples of different web frameworks in Python and JavaScript and Go illustrating how HTTP routing works - in particular the problem of mapping an incoming HTTP request to some code based on both the URL path and the HTTP verb" https://til.simonwillison.net/gpt3/gpt4-api-design

- "JavaScript to prepend a to the first table cell in each row of a table" https://til.simonwillison.net/datasette/row-selection-protot...

- "Write applescript to loop through all of my Apple Notes and output their contents" https://til.simonwillison.net/gpt3/chatgpt-applescript

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