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Ask HN: What companies are embracing “HTML over the wire”?

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Re: Ask HN: What companies are embracing “HTML over the wire”?

#31

Post by sodapopcan »

freedomben wrote: post #7

FWIW most of the companies using Phoenix (Elixir) that I've talked with are sending HTML over the wire, either with LiveView or traditional Views.

I used to work for one, but many companies using Phoenix want more years of Elixir experience than I have.

Re: Ask HN: What companies are embracing “HTML over the wire”?

#32

Post by 88913527 »

mjfisher wrote: post #5
jerjerjer wrote: post #3

Is “HTML over the wire” a new buzzword for SSR or is there a difference I'm missing?

It is rendered server side, but typically the server keeps track of only what needs to change and sends as small as possible an update to dynamically update the DOM. You end up with a user experience that feels close to an SPA, but a dev experience that feels close to traditional SSR.

Having only worked at SPA places, it's hard for me to imagine not having tools like Storybook, Chromatic, and Mocked Service Workers. Building the UI in isolation means with mocked API responses means I can, in parallel, validate 1000's of use cases with pixel-level precision. The backend teams can keep their focus on scalable, performant APIs. The frontend teams can focus on accessibility, consistency, etc. I've found a secret sauce that works very well in my organization, and I'd be curious to know what the equivalent would look like for SSR apps. But I can't overstate of much of a boon it's been to develop the client in isolation. Nearly all my bug reports go straight to the backend teams. It's bliss.

Re: Ask HN: What companies are embracing “HTML over the wire”?

#34

Post by someweirdperson »

intrasight wrote: post #19

You can also go to the extreme of "jpeg over the wire". Your "web browser" could probably be implemented in <1000 lines of of code ;) No state, no cookies, no million lines of bundled JavaScript.

If a "real" browser is used that needs javascript to request a jpeg of a size appropriate for the screen.

There might be something that's good enough through css, not sure.

Re: Ask HN: What companies are embracing “HTML over the wire”?

#35

Post by noveltyaccount »

old man alert Back in my day, we wrote ASP.NET that was all server-side-rendered HTML. Once in a while we got REAL FANCY and used JQuery to make PARTIAL HTML requests and update only FRAGMENTS of the page. Hooboy I knew that fashion was cyclical but not tech!

Re: Ask HN: What companies are embracing “HTML over the wire”?

#36

Post by JonathanBeuys »

jonatron wrote: post #29
JonathanBeuys wrote: post #21

You don't even need a fancy "send html fragments over the wire" approach to create a better user and developer experience. Just sending full pages, server side rendered, like Hacker News and Wikipedia do is fine: Going from the HN homepage to this topic we are on: 36 KB in 5 requests. Going from the Wikipedia Homepage to an article: 824 KB in 25 requests Going from the AirBnB homepage to an apartment listing: 11.4 MB…

old.reddit feels fast, which is why I use the Old Reddit Redirect extension.

Yes, I also use the old Reddit.

What's funny is that the old Reddit makes use of dynamic loading of content here and there the right way. The "load more comments" of the old Reddit is nice and fast. While the "continue this thread" of the new Reddit is annoying and slow.

Re: Ask HN: What companies are embracing “HTML over the wire”?

#37

Post by avmich »

intrasight wrote: post #19

You can also go to the extreme of "jpeg over the wire". Your "web browser" could probably be implemented in <1000 lines of of code ;) No state, no cookies, no million lines of bundled JavaScript.

Little problems with scrolling but constant updates when a page is resized (changes in layout) - maybe it's worth it...

Re: Ask HN: What companies are embracing “HTML over the wire”?

#38

Post by gemstones »

88913527 wrote: post #32
mjfisher wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is rendered server side, but typically the server keeps track of only what needs to change and sends as small as possible an update to dynamically update the DOM. You end up with a user experience that feels close to an SPA, but a dev experience that feels close to traditional SSR.

Having only worked at SPA places, it's hard for me to imagine not having tools like Storybook, Chromatic, and Mocked Service Workers. Building the UI in isolation means with mocked API responses means I can, in parallel, validate 1000's of use cases with pixel-level precision. The backend teams can keep their focus on scalable, performant APIs. The frontend teams can focus on accessibility, consistency, etc. I've fou…

Yeah, I hear the HTML-only case more from people who were full-stack or backend. Giving up the tooling around SPAs would be hard. I'm not sure what the equivalent is - is there any frontend-specific advice for backend devs that amounts to "wouldn't it be cool if you gave up all your developer tooling?"

Re: Ask HN: What companies are embracing “HTML over the wire”?

#40

Post by rigoleto »

thrownaway561 wrote: post #25

I was just watching a talk about htmx which is awesome looking. i'm a rails guy myself so i am really interested in using hotwire in some projects. htmx looks like a very nice crossplatform approach. https://htmx.org/ Here is the talk: https://htmx.org/essays/a-real-world-react-to-htmx-port/

Unpoly (https://unpoly.com/) should be mentioned as well. Much like htmx but with more features.
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