Earlier quoted context omitted.
> just because junior devs do not have to participate in the discussions about architecture design This is incredibly wrong. Even in the case where a junior wouldn't be able to contribute to the discussion meaningfully (and that would be wrong too), they can learn from it.
> Even in the case where a junior wouldn't be able to contribute to the discussion meaningfully ... they can learn from it. Do you mean to say junior devs should be a part every single meeting held by senior engineers? This is utter nonsense, sorry.
Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
31–40 of 111 posts
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is of course the flippant answer but it’s not a bad one. Like, why not? Speaking another widely used language is a really amazing experience and you have the hard parts out of the way which is an excuse to do it and people to practice with. If it seems daunting remember that it’s something even the dumbest two year olds are able to figure out how to do, so you could probably figure it out.
Counterpoint - learning Chinese as an adult who natively speaks English is incredibly hard. If you don't have enough motivation, it is a tedious slog that takes at least a thousand hours of work. I don't think "talking to coworkers" is enough motivation.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
> just because junior devs do not have to participate in the discussions about architecture design This is incredibly wrong. Even in the case where a junior wouldn't be able to contribute to the discussion meaningfully (and that would be wrong too), they can learn from it.
> Even in the case where a junior wouldn't be able to contribute to the discussion meaningfully ... they can learn from it. Do you mean to say junior devs should be a part every single meeting held by senior engineers? This is utter nonsense, sorry.
And I think they should be given the option to attend all other meetings too, maybe with the exclusion of those that are more business oriented like discussing the vision for the team with management, etc. It has to stay efficient.
Otherwise, how do you want your junior developers to not be junior at some point?
I wouldn't want to work for your company.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#34- i dont understand.
- in english please?
- what's that about?
- are you talking about (insert random mandarin word here that will make them laugh, eg cheeseburgers)?
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#35That's hilarious. I used to work as a senior backend developer in one of Berlin's startups. Another senior BE dev was a native Russian speaker, so despite our fluency in English we started chatting in Russian now and then. Our conversations were meaningful and respectful (unlike those held by our predominantly Italian sales team who would shout out words like "cazzo"). We didn't mean to exclude anyone either, we only…
Bro wtf is with that end? > but may I ask you: what's wrong with you? How do you think, does your attitude have something to do with xenophobia? Completely outa the blue based on what came before.
Not really; what came before is a story about how he'd talk with his friend in the office they shared, and then he condemns the OP for sharing the apparent American opinion that that kind of thing needs to be banned. The line from one to the other isn't exactly obscure.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#36That's hilarious. I used to work as a senior backend developer in one of Berlin's startups. Another senior BE dev was a native Russian speaker, so despite our fluency in English we started chatting in Russian now and then. Our conversations were meaningful and respectful (unlike those held by our predominantly Italian sales team who would shout out words like "cazzo"). We didn't mean to exclude anyone either, we only…
I've also seen this a ton in Berlin startups, although mostly French or Spanish. You can't realistically ban people from speaking their native language to each other (nor should you try), however I can understand the feeling of exclusion it creates, not sure what the solution is.
It can be done. Irish Gaelic is not what it was.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#37What is the official language of the company? If it's English, there are grounds to enforce it. The company should _not_ be hiring people on teams who cannot communicate in the common language - that is their failing.
> My manager is remote and has no idea any of this is happening. I don't want to be the asshole to ask people to speak in English, or make my manager be that guy either.
There are several problems here:
1. You can't manage an IRL team remotely. You can manage a remote team remotely, but not an IRL team. Important conversations are happening all the time and managers at least need to be aware they are happening.
This manager should either come into the office or be moved aside for somebody who can.
2. The manager needs to be aware of problems as they happen. They cannot manage what they are not aware of.
3. You are not being an asshole for wanting to communicate with your colleagues. It is _them_ who are deliberately excluding you.
4. (Speaking carefully) Chinese culture specifically can be quite nationalist and diversity of thought and people is not an ideology that is typically shared. If you lost your job and was replaced with another Chinese person, this would be ideal for them.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#38> I don't want to be the asshole to ask people to speak in English, or make my manager be that guy either. Well what do you want? Mandarin lessons for yourself? English lessons offered to your colleague? To be moved to another team? Or do you just want a way to make everyone speak English without people thinking you are “an asshole”? You can talk to your manager about your feelings and what you want to happen, they w…
By asking your team (and hearing them) they will understand and maybe come up with solutions (see e.g. parent) themselves.
At least in Western culture teams I'd do this, not sure whether Eastern culture people would really say what they think though.
Re: Ask HN: How to deal with my team speaking a different language?
#39If you are, then personally I think it is really bad form for the other team members to be speaking in a foreign language when the native English speaker is present.
It's rude and disrespectful and I think it's bizarre that we are in this contemporary situation where we are afraid to say that.
If I was working in a foreign country where the native language was - as you would imagine - that spoken in the office, I would damn well learn it and feel embarrassed at co-English speakers excluding somebody on the team who couldn't speak English.
I can't offer a "tactful" answer beyond having an informal chat with somebody you trust with influence, and even that might be risky in the wrong environment.