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Ask HN: How to get out of making CRUD apps?

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Re: Ask HN: How to get out of making CRUD apps?

#31

Post by unifyjs »

Be ready for the opportunity. Get experience with the alternatives. Study event based architectures like the "Kappa Approach" (great presentation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cJ565r2FVI), install Apache Kafka and build something with it.

The world is slowly coming around to a better way. There are definitely jobs out there, mostly in the start up world, but even enterprise is making a shift, too.

I spent many years building many iterations of an event based platform as a side project (the most recent is https://unifyjs.io/) and am now living the dream - working part time as Head of Technology for a funded startup building an event based platform using Apache Kafka. The opportunity materialised and I was ready for it.

You are a kindred spirit! Don't lose faith, there are better ways than CRUD, and we're getting there slowly!

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of making CRUD apps?

#32

Post by dangarbri3 »

Learn a new stack, doesn't matter how simple the project is, it's for you. Then slap the new stack on your resume and apply. You can honestly tell the recruiter about a project you did in the stack they're looking for and then interview with the team where you can also talk about your project you did with their stack and the work you've done in the past.

I recognize the problem, this is how I managed to go from embedded systems firmware to sys admin/web engineer.

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of making CRUD apps?

#33

Post by ragebol »

Get into embedded software. Grab an Arduino and make it do something fun/useful. Then some other microcontroller etc. So learn C or maybe Rust.

I do robotics (I think manipulating stuff in the real world is more interesting than bits on a server or screen) and occasionally interact with a CRUD system, but can't recall the last time I did really.

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of making CRUD apps?

#36

Post by avereveard »

Well user facing app are about exchanging data with users, so it's hard to escape it.

Data scientist and machine learning experts get to have more fun with data in general.

To escape data itself is even harder tho. High performance computing, iot and large scale networking touches data, but they have niches more concerned with moving it fast and reliably than actually interact with the content.

Eventually it all comes down to moving bytes around tho. Data is how computer founds mentally operate. In the byte space there's work to be had in encryption and compression, but those are quite saturated topics.

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of making CRUD apps?

#38

Post by roland35 »

Firmware isn't as lucrative as other types of software engineering (pay is generally in between electrical engineering and other software engineering) but it certainly isn't CRUD.

There are lots of types of embedded engineers. Some use embedded Linux, some use tiny 8 but processors with 16 kb of flash memory. I've also had a number of recruiters contacting me about designing custom server chips, like for security.

More and more big tech companies are getting into hardware, and it isn't just IoT. Pay at big tech for firmware would match other SWEs so it's a pretty good deal!

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of making CRUD apps?

#39

Post by bruce511 »

mdcds wrote: post #15

> I’ve had little luck of going for roles that do not directly correlate with my current experience. It seems that recruiters have very little interest in talking about any roles other than ones that fit my current stack exactly (node/react/python). Yes! so frustrating! this is the reason why I left SF Bay Area circa 2016. No one wanted to talk about what I wanted to do next and my prof interests. Only about past exp…

>> No one wanted to talk about what I wanted to do next and my prof interests. Only about past experience and existing skills that I could immediately contribute.

This makes complete sense from an employer point of view.

Firstly, they likely filtered you for an interview based on your current skill set. Meaning their need is for _that_ skill set.

Secondly they're not interested in you learning new stuff on their dime. Especially because you'd just take the fruit of that learning elsewhere. [1]

Getting hired into a place where they want your expertise "_after_ you've learned it" is a long game, and they need an actual body now, not some hypothetical body who may work out a year from now, who may leave.

So here's the thing. If you want to learn something new, learn it (on your own time). Don't expect an employer to pay for that. [2]

[1] given that they're not looking for that skill set themselves.

[2] that said, the ability and willingness to learn on the job is an asset. Every business is unique in some way, and adaptability is itself a very useful trait.

Re: Ask HN: How to get out of making CRUD apps?

#40

Post by simne »

Unfortunately, this is Pareto's rule: 20% of work make 80% of results, and there is Hollywood type distribution, that few biggest companies have 80% share of all industry.

So, 80-90% of all work, median of work, are low-tech type.

Where you could look for some high-tech - most probably in large corporations, air-space industry, and universities.

Sometimes, high tech appear in small business, but this is rare, mostly they struggle to be profitable, not for minimize tech debt.

Other heuristic is that on market grow, appear new opportunities and some of them are focused on good architecture; on other end, when marked shrink or recession, all businesses shrink new development and mostly just support existing features. So just wait for next economy cycle, or try to find, which segments have good grow.

Or create your business (startup).

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