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Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

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31–40 of 213 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#31

I think you touched all relevant points. Through my filter, there are either the "serious" customers (you mentioned them: offices and photographers) who are too smart to be scammed. And then there are private consumers who lack the knowledge to pick a printer and because they print only occasionally. I wonder if for the consumer market segment investing into a good printer is it even worth, considering that 2D printi…

Commercial large format inkjet for art/photography has all the same issues but with zeroes on the end. And added expense/complexity, including colorimetry.

Some models have 12 colour cartridges, each costing more than a budget printer.

I wouldn't say photographers can avoid being scammed, because the industry is basically an Epson/Canon duopoly with HP as a somewhat distant third choice.

So competition is very limited, and unless you're bulk-buying printers and ink for a huge print shop there's no leverage to negotiate prices down.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#32
Every time I have a frustrating experience with a printer, I spend the next two days imagining inventions to overthrow printer market, then I move on to over things because, really, who gives a shit about printers. I assume there are lots of people in this camp.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#33
People not recommending inkjet - I won't recommend them too.

But there are ink tank printers available. I bought a cheap one, it doesn't have nice colors, but it has colors. And that printer doesn't need a refill for months (well, mostly printing for kids)

I have HP Smart Tank 510 series. Altgouh I would recommend researching HP ink tank / Epson EcoTank / (other vendors may have different names), I don't recommend particular budget model I have - sometimes it is frustrating that it doesn't want to print over wifi. And that is my complaint in general, that I haven't been lucky enought to own "it just works" printer.

But no, I haven't been familiar with issues you mention (technician?)

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#34
post #21
post #8

Home printers are like coffee pod machines: The money is made on the ink/coffee, and machines are pushed at a discount to dominate the ink/coffee distribution. The market is big and uncritical. Investing in high-quality machines is a long game that many can't justify and so avoid.

> The money is made on the ink/coffee, and machines are pushed at a discount to dominate the ink/coffee distribution. Some years ago Walmart had a HP printer on sale for so cheap that it was more expensive to replace the ink than to get a new printer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor_and_blades_model

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#35
post #10

You should probably clarify if you're asking about inkjet printers. I bought a laser printer almost 2 years ago. No complaints so far, but we'll see how long that lasts.

I have a Brother laser printer/scanner combo that I bought 8 years ago, I actually wish it broke down so I could replace it with something that supports AirPrint without feeling bad about throwing out perfectly good hardware

Same here.

The android brother plug in sucks and I wish google cloud print was still around. I tried mobility print but it didn't quite work as expected and decided to just stick to printing from my laptop.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#36
post #23

Printers are the most mechanically complex computer related product. Just think, fans are basically single bearing and motor. Pumps are pretty much same. Traditional spinning disk, nearly closed system with two motors. Printers have multiple times this complexity. And the products bought are bought for lowest price. Or at least reasonable price. You get what you pay for. And what is paid is often very little. Thus po…

i understand that but 90% of the time that i try to print something it just sits in the queue all alone with no error code and no attempt at printing, i don't think that's a mechanical problem.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#37
post #23

Printers are the most mechanically complex computer related product. Just think, fans are basically single bearing and motor. Pumps are pretty much same. Traditional spinning disk, nearly closed system with two motors. Printers have multiple times this complexity. And the products bought are bought for lowest price. Or at least reasonable price. You get what you pay for. And what is paid is often very little. Thus po…

It's still magic for me how they can get just 1 sheet of paper at a time.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#39
I used to work for Lexmark, back when they were in the inkjet business. They are perhaps most notable for starting and fueling the race to the bottom in printer price. The theory was that if you could lock the users in, the customer lifetime value would be made on selling profitably prices supplies (i.e. the ink cartridge).

There were a few big problems with this:

- People often could buy a new printer, with supplies included, for cheaper than a new set of cartridges.

- The primary focus of new printer development was on eliminating as much cost as possible.

- Refillers and remanufacturers compete with the official supplies.

The result was an almost completely customer-hostile industry. Printers became worse over the years. DRM and write-only memory were used to try to stop refilling and remanufacturing. Expiry of the ink was considered a good thing, as it would force customers to buy more ink even if they had low usage.

While I was there, Lexmark sometimes made losses by selling too many printers. About a decade ago, they left the inkjet industry, which they had played a major role in wrecking. Laser has come down in price to the point that it has largely supplanted inkjet for light-duty use. The manufacturers in the home/small office laser market haven't been quite as hostile.

Interestingly, we're seeing a similar dynamic play out in the venture-backed startup world of the past decade. What's old is new.

Companies eventually started marketing higher quality machines, targeted towards power users with broader needs. But the era of the bargain inkjet printers seems to be pretty much over. Also, it took an entire generation, but we're finally much further along towards the paperless office/society.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#40
post #17

Avoid ink jet and use laser jet instead. This solved most of the frustration for me. The upfront cost is slightly higher, the print quality is slightly decreased but the long term satisfaction is greatly enhanced. Ink jet in any form is dead in my mind.

> the print quality is slightly decreased That's heavily understating it.

Depends on your needs.

If I want display quality photos on heavy weight paper, I go to WalMart or Office Depot and pay for their commercial printer. For small photos embedded in business documents on plain paper, my Canon laser jet does an acceptable job and is relatively frustration free at reasonable cost. Text quality is never an issue.

Ink jet and photos are the main pain points to avoid.

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