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Ask HN: When did corporate America become so flaky?

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Re: Ask HN: When did corporate America become so flaky?

#31
> 1. Is it normal practice to ghost applicants at the staff-level interview process?

Apparently yes. Also, am I meant to follow up after the interview, write a thank you message etc?

Reminds me of this gem (2019) - I've been hiring people for 10 years, and I still swear by a simple rule: If someone doesn't send a thank-you email, don't hire them. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-write-thank-you-email...

> 2. Communications ...

Email hasnt been instant or efficient since the last blackberry rolled off.

> 3. I have, as of today, well over 30 ATL optimized applications still sitting in "applications purgatory" with many large fortune 500 companies ...

LinkedIn applications? I have/had one many years ago, it sat there for multiple years - just waiting for them to get to it and let me know if they want to give me the job or not.

Congrats on getting back in - I expect you are probably seeing these things are no different on the job.

Re: Ask HN: When did corporate America become so flaky?

#32
1) Any feedback is viewed with the fear, real or imagined, that it could lead to some sort of hiring discrimination claim.

2) There are too many people involved in the modern tech hiring interview process and they are perennially confused about their role in the process. Maybe the hiring manager thought their internal recruiter would send feedback. The recruiter thought the “talent acquisition specialist”would send the feedback. The talent acquisition specialist thought the recruiting software would do it.

3) Any technical position posted attracts a huge number of candidates, most of them completely unqualified. (I don’t mean “Go backend dev applies for Swift frontend job”, I mean person with no education or obvious relevant experience with a background in various MLM endeavors applies for a sr-level architect/engineering manager position. Sometimes there are hundreds of unqualified applicants for a single position.)

4) Candidates are ghosting companies just as much, and the recruiters/hiring managers get jaded.

5) The hiring manager — the person with, arguably, the most to lose from a poor candidate experience — probably does hiring the least of their major job responsibilities and just isn’t very good at it.

* Bonus #6 I forgot — if your LinkedIn profile sucks, and by “sucks” I mean doesn’t stand alone as a portrait of your skillset, fix that. Put a summary under each job you’ve held, have a paragraph in there about your strengths, goals, etc. I cannot count the number of times I’ve interviewed someone and been given the candidates “resume” only to find out it was a screenscrape of their linkedin profile that was completely useless, but that the candidate did upload a detailed, well-thought-out resume which our talent management software discarded for no discernible reason. Now, those are just the candidates I’m aware of - I imagine the number discarded by the recruiter based on a faulty assessment driven by the same data is much higher. *

Just my personal opinion, based on my experience as a hiring manager at a medium-sized tech company.

Re: Ask HN: When did corporate America become so flaky?

#33
post #30

> more often than not I would need to write follow-up emails after an email communication would go unresponded to for over a week I know this is a "kids these days" anecdote, but I'm seeing a big generational gap in this kind of activity. I was in a frustrating conversation with an undergrad intern who hadn't responded to an e-mail. I was trying to make it a learning experience: at least in this workplace, if I send…

I blame the email spam. It's made email nearly useless for me in my career except for when I worked at a global investment bank as an intern many years ago. I'm mid 30's principal and I basically ignore email. I check it once a week I'd say. The absolute bulk of communication in my career has been via hipchat/slack/teams, fogbugz/jira/azure devops/monday and our source control systems.

This, this, this. Commenter above definitely needs to keep this in mind.

I have explicitly told my coworkers - all of them - to reach me exclusively on Microsoft Teams; because my Outlook ‘inbox’ is so consistently full of garbage that I’d say about 1/40 messages are actually relevant to me.

Email is a problem that needs to be solved. I could never - do never - blame anyone for not answering an email.

Re: Ask HN: When did corporate America become so flaky?

#34

1) Any feedback is viewed with the fear, real or imagined, that it could lead to some sort of hiring discrimination claim. 2) There are too many people involved in the modern tech hiring interview process and they are perennially confused about their role in the process. Maybe the hiring manager thought their internal recruiter would send feedback. The recruiter thought the “talent acquisition specialist”would send t…

> 1) Any feedback is viewed with the fear, real or imagined, that it could lead to some sort of hiring discrimination claim.

My favorite is getting ghosted by the recruiter when asking for feedback after an onsite only to get an automated email a few days later asking to fill out a survey about their hiring process.

Re: Ask HN: When did corporate America become so flaky?

#35
post #30

> more often than not I would need to write follow-up emails after an email communication would go unresponded to for over a week I know this is a "kids these days" anecdote, but I'm seeing a big generational gap in this kind of activity. I was in a frustrating conversation with an undergrad intern who hadn't responded to an e-mail. I was trying to make it a learning experience: at least in this workplace, if I send…

I blame the email spam. It's made email nearly useless for me in my career except for when I worked at a global investment bank as an intern many years ago. I'm mid 30's principal and I basically ignore email. I check it once a week I'd say. The absolute bulk of communication in my career has been via hipchat/slack/teams, fogbugz/jira/azure devops/monday and our source control systems.

Agree. 33 years old, gmail, with a handful of other accounts used to corral expected spam from low quality websites. My inbox is 100% automated messages, and the only one going back through July that I explicitly solicited is from a concert ticket purchase.

Email, like the telephone, is polluted into uselessness.

Re: Ask HN: When did corporate America become so flaky?

#36
IMO, here's 4 partial explanations, that I may or may not be right about.

1) Companies fear being sued for discriminatory hiring practices. There is zero risk of being sued if you keep your mouth shut and don't communicate with candidates. There is a minor risk of being sued if you give any feedback, even if you don't intend any offense. Sadly, the legal culture means that the safest thing to do is ignore candidates.

2) I don't mean offense to anybody and this is obviously not true in anywhere near 100% of cases. But as a generality, the people who tend to gravitate towards a career in HR departments in today's world are useless and often petty people who have often never held a real productive job.

3) This is more noticeable, particularly in CURRENT_YEAR, but society has broken down in some ways due to current events as well as the media's business model of fear-mongering. Regardless of political stance, a lot of people are feeling scared and hopeless about the future and that has an impact on normal interactions.

4) This may be controversial on HN, but Corporate America learned during Occupy Wall Street that they can take heat off of the 1% by bending the knee and taking certain stances on certain social issues. Keeping the attention off themselves by having the correct politics and flying the correct colorful ribbons is about the only "ethical" issue they care about.

Re: Ask HN: When did corporate America become so flaky?

#37
post #3

I have noticed that communication has gone substantially downhill since the pandemic. Even communicating with people like some doctors, paralegals, and nurses has been tough. There's some incorrect information in my kid's medical file. It's basically impossible to get it corrected. The courts will also take the word of some nurse who entered the note over the parent. Why? Simply because they're a nurse. Yet they're s…

Nobody wants to fucking do any work anymore. I hate to blame it on all this remote work crap but I highly suspect it plays a lot into it. When everybody is a small rectangular box featuring a head and shoulders, the human connection is completely gone. It's all fake internet shit now so who cares? Plus all interaction has to be gated through meetings and shit. Things happen much, much slower.

I dunno man. It isn't the pandemic itself that did this. It's societies response to it that caused all this mess and it will take quite some time for things to revert back to the mean. It sucks. I hate it. But that is what it is gonna be.

The last 2.5 years has felt like some dystopian nightmare that refuses to go away. It completely sucks.

Re: Ask HN: When did corporate America become so flaky?

#38
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame the email spam. It's made email nearly useless for me in my career except for when I worked at a global investment bank as an intern many years ago. I'm mid 30's principal and I basically ignore email. I check it once a week I'd say. The absolute bulk of communication in my career has been via hipchat/slack/teams, fogbugz/jira/azure devops/monday and our source control systems.

This, this, this. Commenter above definitely needs to keep this in mind. I have explicitly told my coworkers - all of them - to reach me exclusively on Microsoft Teams; because my Outlook ‘inbox’ is so consistently full of garbage that I’d say about 1/40 messages are actually relevant to me. Email is a problem that needs to be solved. I could never - do never - blame anyone for not answering an email.

And I (and half of my company at this point) am the opposite. Except for the one day a week I'm in the office I'm permanently on do not disturb on teams chat except for my boss and the CEO, and teams calls are forwarded to voicemail with an "if you need to ask me a question, send me an email or request a meetingand send me an agenda. In an emergency call me on my real phone." Asynchronous communication for the win! Also set email rules. My favourite is any email I am just cc'd in to is automatically moved into my ignore folder (unless it's from boss or CEO). I have a job that requires being able to concentrate on a task for long periods and instant messaging and calls are absolute productivity killers.

Re: Ask HN: When did corporate America become so flaky?

#39

> 1. Is it normal practice to ghost applicants at the staff-level interview process? Apparently yes. Also, am I meant to follow up after the interview, write a thank you message etc? Reminds me of this gem (2019) - I've been hiring people for 10 years, and I still swear by a simple rule: If someone doesn't send a thank-you email, don't hire them. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-write-thank-you-email... > 2. Co…

> Reminds me of this gem (2019) - I've been hiring people for 10 years, and I still swear by a simple rule: If someone doesn't send a thank-you email, don't hire them. https://www.businessinsider.c

A fuckin thank-you email?! That lady is out of her gourd. I didn’t receive a response (even an automated email rejection) to over 50% of the hundred or so applications I submitted during my last job search. Half of the companies to whom I applied didn’t even acknowledge that I applied to work there.

Re: Ask HN: When did corporate America become so flaky?

#40

> more often than not I would need to write follow-up emails after an email communication would go unresponded to for over a week I know this is a "kids these days" anecdote, but I'm seeing a big generational gap in this kind of activity. I was in a frustrating conversation with an undergrad intern who hadn't responded to an e-mail. I was trying to make it a learning experience: at least in this workplace, if I send…

Send him a slack/{insert app here} message instead, you are in no position to demand a response "in time" from anyone really. Many people prefer using real-time collab tools for a reason, and only check their email once or twice a day.
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