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Ask HN: Where are all the senior front end engineers?

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Re: Ask HN: Where are all the senior front end engineers?

#31

Post by hahaitsfunny »

Because senior engineers realize what a dumpster fire the modern web is and then don't want to work on it since they can make more doing backend feature dev just as easily if they learn another skill set / language.

There is also a limit to what you can do in a browser. Many folks get tired of working in this environment and want to branch out and explore more areas of programming / application development.

Also, the constant churning of overengineered tooling, libraries, and frameworks in the modern web ecosystem is another big turn off for a lot of folks.

Re: Ask HN: Where are all the senior front end engineers?

#32

Post by hahaitsfunny »

cheeaun wrote: post #29

I'm a senior FE engineer in Singapore, been doing FE since 2000, here's what I think: 1. Job descriptions and interviews now are skewed towards "full-stack" or backend. Most interviews are lacking or outdated due to the fast and volatile nature of FE. 2. Literally no career progression if you're specialised in FE. Most BE or "full-stack" devs will be given a chance to become principal engineers, tech leads, engineeri…

Wouldn't "full-stack" engineers be coding the frontend themselves?

Sounds like some of this strife and frustration and criticisms being levied has more to do with organization / management vs why there aren't as many senior FE developers as compared to other specializations. I doubt the situation at your organization is the same everywhere.

Re: Ask HN: Where are all the senior front end engineers?

#33

Post by hahaitsfunny »

sacrosanct wrote: post #7

Blame this on the low bar to entry. HTML, CSS & JS are relatively easy to learn. So you have everyone applying for these jobs and we’ve reached peak front end candidates. The real trick is to find those who use that tech in new and interesting ways. Those who push the envelope.

Well also, the low barrier to entry in the web development world means literally almost anyone can become a "developer" or an "engineer" just by following some stupid React / Vue tutorial. The problem is - this doesn't include knowledge fundamental to being a strong computer scientist - like understanding how a computer works or how data is stored and retrieved in memory.

I think the web offers a very limited slice of what folks can potentially learn about computing, and this is why many folks don't stick around in FE for long.

Re: Ask HN: Where are all the senior front end engineers?

#34

Post by cheeaun »

hahaitsfunny wrote: post #32
cheeaun wrote: post #29

I'm a senior FE engineer in Singapore, been doing FE since 2000, here's what I think: 1. Job descriptions and interviews now are skewed towards "full-stack" or backend. Most interviews are lacking or outdated due to the fast and volatile nature of FE. 2. Literally no career progression if you're specialised in FE. Most BE or "full-stack" devs will be given a chance to become principal engineers, tech leads, engineeri…

Wouldn't "full-stack" engineers be coding the frontend themselves? Sounds like some of this strife and frustration and criticisms being levied has more to do with organization / management vs why there aren't as many senior FE developers as compared to other specializations. I doubt the situation at your organization is the same everywhere.

Yeah, "full-stack" does front-end too. Though from my observation it's more like 80% BE, 20% FE. Generally they spend more time working on FE tasks than specialised ones as FE becomes so, so complicated.

I've personally seen many (junior) FE engineers decide to switch to BE, "full-stack", data or devops (or even design) because of how messy FE can get.

I know it's a lot of things (organization, management, people issues, expectations, etc) and this is basically just what I observe in Singapore. Could be different in other cities/countries.

Re: Ask HN: Where are all the senior front end engineers?

#35

Post by steve_adams_86 »

hahaitsfunny wrote: post #31

Because senior engineers realize what a dumpster fire the modern web is and then don't want to work on it since they can make more doing backend feature dev just as easily if they learn another skill set / language. There is also a limit to what you can do in a browser. Many folks get tired of working in this environment and want to branch out and explore more areas of programming / application development. Also, the…

> There is also a limit to what you can do in a browser.

While there are limits, the web and browsers are the most exciting they've ever been in my ~15 years of breaking things on the internet.

There are so many cool things being built right now. If you've got a varied enough skill set and an appetite for learning, now is an incredible time to be a senior full stack/front end engineer.

Re: Ask HN: Where are all the senior front end engineers?

#37

Post by badinsie »

probably no one wants to deal with all the headache that comes with it tbh. my experience, management just always fucks it up. the first org i ever did FE at didn't even have daily standup or any kind of scrum or agile processes... no jira. no version control. no separate environments. no nothing. and then they blamed devs for not delivering when business/ownership couldn't even define what we were supposed to be delivering.

Re: Ask HN: Where are all the senior front end engineers?

#38

Post by jayofdoom »

cheeaun wrote: post #29

I'm a senior FE engineer in Singapore, been doing FE since 2000, here's what I think: 1. Job descriptions and interviews now are skewed towards "full-stack" or backend. Most interviews are lacking or outdated due to the fast and volatile nature of FE. 2. Literally no career progression if you're specialised in FE. Most BE or "full-stack" devs will be given a chance to become principal engineers, tech leads, engineeri…

I've done backend/systems development work for over a decade.

Front end is a world of pain I want no part of. Regardless of how the system is skewed, I appreciate your specialty.

Re: Ask HN: Where are all the senior front end engineers?

#40

Post by hahaitsfunny »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #35
hahaitsfunny wrote: post #31

Because senior engineers realize what a dumpster fire the modern web is and then don't want to work on it since they can make more doing backend feature dev just as easily if they learn another skill set / language. There is also a limit to what you can do in a browser. Many folks get tired of working in this environment and want to branch out and explore more areas of programming / application development. Also, the…

> There is also a limit to what you can do in a browser. While there are limits, the web and browsers are the most exciting they've ever been in my ~15 years of breaking things on the internet. There are so many cool things being built right now. If you've got a varied enough skill set and an appetite for learning, now is an incredible time to be a senior full stack/front end engineer.

I personally disagree. I find the internet and web browser to be the least interesting portion of the computing stack - I get my kicks doing graphics programming and systems programming. The browser and web are the last technologies I want to write code for in my personal time. This is why computing and programming a great though, no matter what your interests are, you can probably find some niche or specialization that suits your personal interests and strengths.
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