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Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

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31–40 of 234 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#31
post #26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every product works this way.

Nonsense. I bought a hammer the other day and could start using it without signing away any of my rights. It's pretty much only digital products that somehow force you to do that.

If you brought the hammer home and it didn't work as you expected it to, you can take it back. Just like you can with this camera, you can decline the EULA and send the product back.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#32
post #4

1) You misunderstood. The relevant part is "technical, diagnostic, usage and related information". Note it doesn't say 'video' anywhere there, and even it did it wouldn't hold up court.

But that sentence continues with > including but not limited to information about your RED Camera, Camera Module, computer, system and application software, usage, content, and peripherals Should I be reading the "content" part as "information about your content" ? As in, metadata about the content? Lens focal lengths, recording quality, codecs, etc? That would make more sense.

"usage" and "content" are part of a list following "information about", so they are collecting information about content, not content itself.

What exactly that means in practice, we are all just guessing unless you go and ask them to clarify. Probably things like what settings you used for your videos so they can analyze which features are most popular/worth improving.

At least in the EU, if this EULA was not clearly accessible/communicated on the store page before purchase, it would just be invalid, and you'd have a case that the product doesn't work. They're banking on people having more important things to do and just clicking accept to use their product...

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#33
EULA is normal, no worries there.

But if you are worried about someone stealing your footage, why would you even allow this camera to access Internet? I do sensitive amateur porn, and it stays strictly offline with air gaps. It is not that hard, just a bit unconvinient.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that sentence continues with > including but not limited to information about your RED Camera, Camera Module, computer, system and application software, usage, content, and peripherals Should I be reading the "content" part as "information about your content" ? As in, metadata about the content? Lens focal lengths, recording quality, codecs, etc? That would make more sense.

That's the correct reading but I'm not sure just how much leeway "including but not limited to" tends to get. Does that, in practice, mean "things like the following" or does it mean "literally anything"?

It refers to the previous section of the same sentence, these things are given as examples of "technical, diagnostic, usage and related information". It'd be up to a court to decide whether something not part of the examples could be reasonably called that.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#35
post #26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every product works this way.

Nonsense. I bought a hammer the other day and could start using it without signing away any of my rights. It's pretty much only digital products that somehow force you to do that.

>I bought a hammer the other day and could start using it without signing away any of my rights.

The "smart hammers" are coming. And how about Peloton style group hammering.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#37
post #16
post #5

AFAIK these EULAs are legal. In reality, RED isn't exfiltrating their customers' video (the files are enormous so people would notice) and they would go out of business if they did. Probably every product has some objectionable clause in their EULA which no one reads, so you're better off not reading it and moving on with your life. If you want to be a freedom fighter, go work for the EFF; if you want to make video,…

The purchase is completed before he gets it home and finds new conditions being imposed. That the part that I question about being legal.

It is legal. But under warranty law, they also have to deliver you a product that works or refund your money.
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