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Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

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Re: Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

#31
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in the process of moving to exactly this approach. I’ve been trying to pick the right Linux distro to base my images on. Ubuntu Server is the low effort route but a bit big to redeploy constantly. I’ve also been looking at the possibility of using Alpine Linux which feels like a better fit but a bit more tweaking needed for compatibility across cloud providers. Unikernels are also interesting but I think that mig…

Ubuntu is too heavy. Try CentOS.

Thanks, CentOS was on my radar too. I’ll take a closer look!

Re: Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

#35
My company runs without containers. We process petabytes of data monthly, thousands of CPU cores, hundreds of different types of data pipelines running continously, etc etc. Definitely a distributed system with lots of applications and databases.

We use Nix for reproducible builds and deployments. Containers only give reproducible deployments, not builds, so they would be a step down. The reason that's important is that it frees us from troubleshooting "works on my machine" issues, or from someone pushing an update somewhere and breaking our build. That's not important to everyone if they have few dependencies that don't change often, but for an internet company, the trend is accelerating towards bigger and more complex dependency graphs.

Kubernetes has mostly focused on stateless applications so far. That's the easy part! The hard part is managing databases. We don't use Kubernetes, but there's little attraction because it would be addressing something that's already effortless for us to manage.

What works for us is to do the simplest thing that works, then iterate. I remember being really intimidated about all the big data technologies coming out a decade ago, thinking they are so complex that they must know what they're doing! But I'd so often dive in to understand the details and be disillusioned about how much complexity there is for relatively little benefit. I was in a sort of paralysis of what we'd do after we outgrew postgresql, and never found a good answer. Here we are years later, with a dozen+ postgresql databases, some measuring up to 30 terabytes each, and it's still the best solution for us.

Perhaps I've read too far into the intent of the question, but maybe you can afford to drop the research project into containers and kubernetes, and do something simple that works for now, and get back to focusing on product?

Re: Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

#36
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I've seen containerization mentioned by many vendors in the last year. It adds another layer of questions to vet like "do they possibly know what they're doing?"

Do you see shipping in containers as a sign that they do know what they're doing, or as a sign that they don't?

Neither by default. I look to be convinced that they've implemented containers because it made sense for their technical architecture or strategy.

I have a vendor who pitched their new "cloud-native" re-platforming project and it really spooked me. It's data management-type tool that was migrating from a traditional on-prem client/server architecture to an AWS-hosted Angular interface with a MongoDB backend. I got the same pitch a year later and the entire stack had changed. I was spooked the first time; now I'm really spooked and thinking about migrating off the platform.

Re: Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

#37
post #28

Grooveshark didn't use any of that. We were very careful about avoiding dependencies where possible and keeping our backend code clean and performant. We supported about 45M MAU at our biggest, with only a handful of physical servers. I'm not aware of any blog posts we made detailing any of this, though. And if you're not familiar with the saga, Grooveshark went under for legal, not technical reasons. The backend API…

What a great service. I'd be curious if you could go into details how the radio feature worked back then, because I found myself receiving worse suggestions when I used similar features in Spotify/Google Play Music.

Re: Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

#38

My company runs without containers. We process petabytes of data monthly, thousands of CPU cores, hundreds of different types of data pipelines running continously, etc etc. Definitely a distributed system with lots of applications and databases. We use Nix for reproducible builds and deployments. Containers only give reproducible deployments, not builds, so they would be a step down. The reason that's important is t…

It sounds interesting. You mentioned big data; what is your tech stack other than postgres?

Re: Ask HN: Who operates at scale without containers?

#40
post #28

Grooveshark didn't use any of that. We were very careful about avoiding dependencies where possible and keeping our backend code clean and performant. We supported about 45M MAU at our biggest, with only a handful of physical servers. I'm not aware of any blog posts we made detailing any of this, though. And if you're not familiar with the saga, Grooveshark went under for legal, not technical reasons. The backend API…

Thanks for giving some insight into this. Grooveshark was absolutely great!
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