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Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#32
For the Ukraine war: also do not trust any information sources.

Even the good guys are lying.

I've been watching foreign news (Sky News, while I'm American), to avoid both our own biases, and the inevitable chatter about American politics. Sky isn't perfect, but at least if they're being deceptive, it probably won't be targeted at me.

I also like the Reddit live thread and a Twitter account @EnglishUkraine, keeping in mind that they both will have bad information sometimes given how quickly they report everything.

Normally, I just don't read the news. Pretty much at all. It takes a pandemic, or an invasion to get my attention. It's a conscious choice that I believe is beneficial to my health.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#33

Read sources with different points of view and take the average. Pretty easy with the Russia-Ukraine situation, just take 2 western or Ukrainian news sources, 2 Russian and 2 relatively unrelated (China, Africa, etc.) Same with elections (2 Dems, 2 Reps, 2-3 unrelated international). Much more difficult with COVID since nearly everybody has the same point of view, and the remaining ones are marginal. IMO, in such a s…

The idea that Russian state-controlled media are useful to find the truth in the middle seems a bit far-fetched. Reputable media in most countries call this a war, Russian news says it is a special operation to rid a country that doesn't really have any claim to sovereignty of its Nazi-leader. Chinese media is pretending nothing is going on at all.

So applying your method leaves us with: a conflict (but not really a war) where Russia is not quite invading a not quite country to protect Russians and get rid of Zelenski, who is a bit of a Nazi?

There may be nuances and opinions, but the facts presented by non Russian/Chinese media seem rather uncontested.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#34
post #32

For the Ukraine war: also do not trust any information sources. Even the good guys are lying. I've been watching foreign news (Sky News, while I'm American), to avoid both our own biases, and the inevitable chatter about American politics. Sky isn't perfect, but at least if they're being deceptive, it probably won't be targeted at me. I also like the Reddit live thread and a Twitter account @EnglishUkraine, keeping i…

I don't know if that is the same SkyNews that we have here but if it is I would avoid it like the plague. It's effectively our version of Fox News. If you want something non-biased (from Australia that is) then ABC News or SBS World News is as close as you are going to get. Both are funded explicitly in a way that avoids biases (but also why our government has been trying to take said funding away...).

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#35
> I'm wondering how you personally deal with possible deliberate misinformation on the internet. Lately I've begun to doubt every source of information that could possibly be shared because of financial, political, or misplaced altruistic motivations. So I've been ignoring as much as possible.

Precisely that is the result that the masterminds behind the "firehose of lies" and the propaganda want. Distrust in media, distrust in government makes it easier for the enemy (no matter if it is Russia, China or domestic) to act. And the fact that way too many people do not have the adequate time (because they have to work two jobs or way beyond reasonable overtime) or the skills (more than half the US are barely literate [1]) to properly judge news on their authenticity makes things only worse.

The word democracy has demos at its core: the populace that forms the society. And the less people trust democratic processes like elections or an independent and fair justice system and the more people withdraw from taking part in democratic society as a result of all of that, the worse the eventual outcome is. The best condition for authoritarian rulers to rise is when the majority of people doesn't care or doesn't recognize the looming danger.

[1]: https://www.wyliecomm.com/2021/08/whats-the-latest-u-s-liter...

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#37
I fall back on peer reviewed information - published research, pre-prints, journal editorials, etc . - and for everything else I apply bias analysis like I was taught to do in college history courses - rely on primary sources first and only use secondary sources when you must.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#38

Read sources with different points of view and take the average. Pretty easy with the Russia-Ukraine situation, just take 2 western or Ukrainian news sources, 2 Russian and 2 relatively unrelated (China, Africa, etc.) Same with elections (2 Dems, 2 Reps, 2-3 unrelated international). Much more difficult with COVID since nearly everybody has the same point of view, and the remaining ones are marginal. IMO, in such a s…

If one side is serving chocolate cake, and the other shit, then what you end up with is a half-shit, half-chocolate confection. Some people apparently like that, but I personally don't.

Another way of saying this is historian John M. Barry's quote, "when you mix politics and science, you get politics," also famously cited by Peter Daszak.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#39
I first assume I cannot take for granted what I am reading, no matter how credible the source apparently is. It doesn't matter if it's a Hacker News comment or an article by a reputed organization.

Then I try to use my brain to think what the article is saying. I see the claims the article makes, and ask questions to verify and counter those claims. Just to give a hypothetical example:

"New vaccine developed for Covid-19 promising 100% effectiveness! Will we finally be living without Covid-19?"

I'll go like:

- Hmm, a bit clickbaity title. Should have some asterisk marks attached to it.

- The 100% effectiveness claim. Is it based on a research paper?

- If yes, is it peer-reviewed?

- If it is peer-reviewed, where is it published? Is it a source that has high reputation for being trustable?

- If yes, did they do randomized control trials?

- If yes, what's the sample size? Is it large enough to be credible?

And so on.

From here, the content actually might go beyond my level of expertise and knowledge (I am not a virologist, so I am not technically qualified to verify the claims or smell a rat if there is one), but much of the time, many claims will fail to live up to these simple questions that are very basic. The more "no"s I get from these questions, the lower it gets on my credibility list, and if it drops beyond a certain point, I conclude it's fake and move on. If it stays high up there multiple times, I tend to believe it to be "possibly true".

Note that I don't assign anything as "facts" that easily.

The thing I keep in mind is this: there is zero point in "keeping up-to-date" with news unless I am willing to analyze the content to the best of my abilities and draw conclusions from them. If anything, just gobbling up whatever news comes out is harmful to mental health. I don't want to be turned into an "information zombie" who doesn't ask questions.

Also, it's completely fine NOT to try to read every news. Like, I don't know anything about American football (sorry!) so analyzing tier lists for teams is something highly interesting for many, but is not something I'd prefer to give time to.

And now is, in my opinion, a great time to do this analysis. The world is in chaos, and these times brings out the worst in people. So now we get to see things that we wouldn't see in the best of times, and who knows, maybe the data we internalize on how people react might come handy at some point in the future. :)

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with lies on the internet?

#40

I'm an American, living in the US, and for situations like Ukraine specifically, I don't believe anything right away. War is chaotic, and social media makes it more so. It costs me nothing to reserve judgement, because nothing depends on me except that I might accidentally share false info. Better to stay quiet, think, and wait. The truth may come out eventually. No one cares if I personally think it's true, but ther…

Speaking of social media usefulness, but unrelated, but I found it strange/funny/sad/depressing, I signed up last night on Twitter and one of the posts about Ukraine at the top was like

"Like for Zelensky, RT for Putin, who do you prefer" With some thousands interactions

Does humanity really need social media? Why politicians keep posting their communications there, why they feel they need to expose citizens to such brain damaging content just to be able to see what they say

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