Not sure if this is the case here, but in this business it's common that compensation is structured as: base salary + guaranteed year-end bonus + performance-based year-end bonus. The offer would include only the first two items. The base salary should be similar to an average salary as a software engineer that you could get elsewhere. The guaranteed part of the bonus can vary anywhere from 10% to 100% of your salary; it really depends on the company and your position (in your case, you should expect a lower number). The non-guaranteed part of the bonus is where the real money can be found, though, and that cannot be negotiated. It will be based on your personal performance and on the performance of the company each year. So bargain carefully for the first two components of the compensation, but remember that the third component is where the real upside is. In other words, especially with your almost non-existent experience (no disrespect), you should take whatever you can get from them. Assuming that you want to work in that business, of course. I hope this helps.
Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?
31–38 of 38 posts
Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?
#32Question for you, if you don't mind. How did you get to this point, where you have a job offer? I am also self-taught with 0 professional experience in NYC and would like to be in your shoes.
Sure, do you have a throwaway email? Put it in your profile, and I'll shoot you an email.
Sorry to pile on, but can you do the same for me? I'm considering a similar path to the one you're investigating here.
Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?
#33Take the job. After a year, once you have the experience, you can move on. Or they will offer you more money, because you'll have proven yourself. Either way, you'll be better off, and you'll know what market rate looks like.
Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?
#34From what I understand about the hedge fund market (a friend of mine is the CTO of a hedge fund who worked his way up as a programmer), especially for NYC, is to expect a low salary, and make it up with the end of year bonus. No idea how much things have changed since he told me this (a couple years ago), but that's what I got.
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Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for the feedback. I won't be involved in the investment decisions, but will be developing tools for the traders. There is a bonus, but I'm not sure what the typical size is for the developers. I'm wondering if the bonus is on par with what developers at Google/Facebook, etc take home. But you're right, it is something I will consider when evaluating the package.
From what I understand (again, heresay), in the heavy-investment locations like NYC, it was something like over 70% of your income was in the form of a bonus, perhaps more, ie, you might take a $30k salary, but if performance of the company is good, you may end up with a $100k bonus.
Some people (particularly senior folk) on Wall St do in fact get significant bonuses like you describe. And many companies like to attract employees by talking about bonuses. But, unless a bonus is specifically stipulated in your contract, I wouldn't count on it. Your bosses can always come up with some excuse for not giving you the bonus -- especially if you're a junior employee. As such, you are quite disposable and replaceable.
Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for the feedback. I won't be involved in the investment decisions, but will be developing tools for the traders. There is a bonus, but I'm not sure what the typical size is for the developers. I'm wondering if the bonus is on par with what developers at Google/Facebook, etc take home. But you're right, it is something I will consider when evaluating the package.
From what I understand (again, heresay), in the heavy-investment locations like NYC, it was something like over 70% of your income was in the form of a bonus, perhaps more, ie, you might take a $30k salary, but if performance of the company is good, you may end up with a $100k bonus.
Some developers who were previously making ~$90-$110,000 would take positions to $70 - $90,000 for a large financial conglomerate with "bonus" potential as a carrot. Those bonuses trended towards $20,000 (so, a loss, and working 70 hours a week (on the Operations side of the Dev time, see below)).
For a Jr at a hedge fund, you should be aiming for $70,000 minimum, then, provide enough value for a $40,000 bonus (hedge fund'esque).
You don't go Around your third-party recruiter, because he is representing you. Could cause problems (am I wrong in this? I've negotiated (upwards typically) salaries at financial / ecomm firms, the companies Expect part of the fee is not dealing with the headache of "back and forth" between a candidate). On the other hand, I've had candidates I don't represent ask advice on negotiations (when they have gone on their own to a firm).
Anyway, most of your comp will be in the form of bonus, but, you shouldn't be taking a horrendous (what, $40, $50k) base salary just because you were previously making such. The fact that you are in offer stage means they are Interested.
It also depends on the "side" of the business you are on (support (or Operations) vs revenue). If you are building tools for the traders, you are higher value.
Cheers!
Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sounds like you have a bad recruiter. (2) is a situation that should never happen, as they get paid by a percentage of your base salary. You sure? Situations like that are ripe for recruiters lowballing the hires. Why? Because the recruiter can get many commissions from a steady client, but only gets one commission from the employee. As long as they can make it up on volume, there's a real incentive to be a slack n…
Even if the recruiter never plans to do business with the employer again, his interest aren't fully aligned with the job seeker. The recruiter has a strong incentive to the the seeker hired -- regardless of salary -- because if he gets ends up taking a different position, the recruiter may get nothing.
Yes, 90 day guarantee's and all that. But, its true, the incentive is to CLOSE the deal vs closing at the most optimal for the candidate (a % of the fee vs 0% of the fee).
Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?
#38Question for you, if you don't mind. How did you get to this point, where you have a job offer? I am also self-taught with 0 professional experience in NYC and would like to be in your shoes.
Sure, do you have a throwaway email? Put it in your profile, and I'll shoot you an email.
could you please share the details with me as well. Thanks