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Ask HN: How to convince big tech team that tests and code quality matter?
31–40 of 76 posts
Re: Ask HN: How to convince big tech team that tests and code quality matter?
#32You should first establish yourself as a productive member of the team. No one is going to want to hear about how they could do things better from someone who just started. Once you have credibility and maybe some allies you'll want to have some evidence to support any new processes or workflows. Anecdotes about how you did things at other jobs won't carry a lot of weight. The problem with software development techni…
> It takes a while to get into a code base and really understand it, and by that time some things that seemed terrible or confusing at first will make sense.
Classic Stockholm Syndrome.
Re: Ask HN: How to convince big tech team that tests and code quality matter?
#33You should first establish yourself as a productive member of the team. No one is going to want to hear about how they could do things better from someone who just started. Once you have credibility and maybe some allies you'll want to have some evidence to support any new processes or workflows. Anecdotes about how you did things at other jobs won't carry a lot of weight. The problem with software development techni…
> It takes a while to get into a code base and really understand it, and by that time some things that seemed terrible or confusing at first will make sense. Classic Stockholm Syndrome.
Some call it stockholm syndrome, we call it the Spotify model!
Re: Ask HN: How to convince big tech team that tests and code quality matter?
#34Since you mention a big tech company, what you’ll probably find is that there are people that care about these things around you, and they’re probably doing what they can and could do with support - not necessarily to do work, but also just moral support. (I like to pretend I’m one of those people in the quality space in my area in my big tech company…)
As others mention, be careful trying to change the world (and especially saying bad things about what you see) before you grow your credibility. But ask a few questions in team meetings (or, at something like FB, in workplace groups) about what test or staging or related infrastructure is available as part of ramping up, and that might get people that care to notice you’re a potential ally.
There’s even the (admittedly probably very) small chance that that the team wants to improve here, and doesn’t know how/didn’t have the resources to do better before - either way, you’ll learn more without alienating anyone.
Big tech companies also often offer mobility and culture variety, so keep your eye out for teams that align with what you care about. Learn what they do and how they got started at least - or possibly move there.
(If you’re at FB, feel free to reach out to me - same account name.)
Re: Ask HN: How to convince big tech team that tests and code quality matter?
#35You should first establish yourself as a productive member of the team. No one is going to want to hear about how they could do things better from someone who just started. Once you have credibility and maybe some allies you'll want to have some evidence to support any new processes or workflows. Anecdotes about how you did things at other jobs won't carry a lot of weight. The problem with software development techni…
> No one is going to want to hear about how they could do things better from someone who just started I don't understand why more people don't get this. Like thanks for showing up and implying everyone is incompetent with your suggestions?
You shouldn't judge quality or suggestions by seniority
Re: Ask HN: How to convince big tech team that tests and code quality matter?
#36Well, how about just doing your work first? If you like writing tests, do it. If you're allowed to commit them, OK. If it is good, others will follow.
But don't talk to much about it and beware forcing others to do their work like you do. If there is something like code review meetings, you may show it to others. If there is no SonarQube or infrastructure, establish it e.g. in Docker on your system. Have a plan in mind, how to transfer it to the company infrastructure, but don't force anyone to do so. Just if someone asks you.
You have an opportunity here to integrate YOUR personal way of testing and spreading the knowledge. Have faith that good things will prevail. Give it a year...
Re: Ask HN: How to convince big tech team that tests and code quality matter?
#37You should first establish yourself as a productive member of the team. No one is going to want to hear about how they could do things better from someone who just started. Once you have credibility and maybe some allies you'll want to have some evidence to support any new processes or workflows. Anecdotes about how you did things at other jobs won't carry a lot of weight. The problem with software development techni…
One thing that can help build credibility before making larger suggestions is working on obvious, uncontroversial pain points in any spare time you have.
Re: Ask HN: How to convince big tech team that tests and code quality matter?
#38You should first establish yourself as a productive member of the team. No one is going to want to hear about how they could do things better from someone who just started. Once you have credibility and maybe some allies you'll want to have some evidence to support any new processes or workflows. Anecdotes about how you did things at other jobs won't carry a lot of weight. The problem with software development techni…
> No one is going to want to hear about how they could do things better from someone who just started I don't understand why more people don't get this. Like thanks for showing up and implying everyone is incompetent with your suggestions?
It gets even worse when somebody is successful in being the new guy not understanding the new codebase and making big changes to recreate their previous workspace anyway.
Fresh eyes and a fresh perspective are useful but don’t go recreating the universe right away.
Re: Ask HN: How to convince big tech team that tests and code quality matter?
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
> No one is going to want to hear about how they could do things better from someone who just started I don't understand why more people don't get this. Like thanks for showing up and implying everyone is incompetent with your suggestions?
You shouldn't judge quality or suggestions by seniority
It's not seniority that's the criteria. It's street cred / rapport.
Re: Ask HN: How to convince big tech team that tests and code quality matter?
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
> No one is going to want to hear about how they could do things better from someone who just started I don't understand why more people don't get this. Like thanks for showing up and implying everyone is incompetent with your suggestions?
You shouldn't judge quality or suggestions by seniority
It's not seniority, it's someone showing up who don't understand the challenges that lead to the current situation and not learning them before pointing at issues.