Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#31

Post by svennek » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:06 AM UTC

onethought wrote: post #15

svennek wrote: post #3

I think basically because there is nothing interesting left to discus. One camp (where I am in) basically believes it is an environmental disaster, unsuitable for its stated purpose and most likely as scam by the "whales" manipulating the price, and with a potential 51%-disaster. The other camp believes that it is the future of money, untraceable wealth storage and inflation/"confiscation proof" and that all the envi…

The environmental argument is a straw man, and not really related to crypto, but actually related to our energy mix. If crypto was mined only on renewables there is no environmental argument. Ergo, not related to crypto technology itself.

I think the renewable energy is the real straw-man.

What about the non-recycable waste after "renewable" energy. Windmills have steel coated by epoxy wings, those cannot be recycled.

Solar panels is also ready for the trash-heap after 20 years, due to being a complex composite..

The only real energy source that would help would be nuclear, but even if we get that where have more efficient room-heaters and better use of the computing.. (protein folding could be one for example)

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#32

Post by CorrectHorseBat » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:06 AM UTC

onethought wrote: post #15

svennek wrote: post #3

I think basically because there is nothing interesting left to discus. One camp (where I am in) basically believes it is an environmental disaster, unsuitable for its stated purpose and most likely as scam by the "whales" manipulating the price, and with a potential 51%-disaster. The other camp believes that it is the future of money, untraceable wealth storage and inflation/"confiscation proof" and that all the envi…

The environmental argument is a straw man, and not really related to crypto, but actually related to our energy mix. If crypto was mined only on renewables there is no environmental argument. Ergo, not related to crypto technology itself.

Renewables have environmental impact too.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#33

Post by Applejinx » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:07 AM UTC

I would say it's because people on Hacker News are pretty intelligent.

Either they are intelligent and manipulative and are looking to maximize their investments whatever the cost to others, the externalities, whatever… or they are intelligent and accurately perceiving the first type of intelligent person.

By now, if you're a techie nerd, to be naive about this topic would mean there's something seriously wrong with you. You should have picked a side by now as this is not complicated or ambiguous. There is only furthering crypto by any means necessary, or opposing it (increasingly, by any means necessary). It's not going to get any blurrier. If you feign naivete and curiosity at this stage you are probably being manipulative and actually in the 'furthering by any means necessary' camp…

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#34

Post by munhitsu » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:07 AM UTC

svennek wrote: post #3

I think basically because there is nothing interesting left to discus. One camp (where I am in) basically believes it is an environmental disaster, unsuitable for its stated purpose and most likely as scam by the "whales" manipulating the price, and with a potential 51%-disaster. The other camp believes that it is the future of money, untraceable wealth storage and inflation/"confiscation proof" and that all the envi…

proof-of-stake already exists - we call it "traditional bank"

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#35

Post by jkhsdfkjgh » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

In my case there isn't curiousity left. I was curious at some point, learned and explored about the subject, and made up my mind. After that there was also a period where I was curious why people were disagreeing with me, but that's gone now too, mostly because I repeatedly find their arguments make no sense.

In a nutshell, I'm all for cheaper money transfer, but I've never seen convincing arguments that it follows that bitcoin should be worth X. If I write a cheque for $60,000, that piece of paper is still worth $0.50. Just because it can be used for a transaction, it doesn't follow that it's worth as much as the amount being transferred.

Fundamentally on the one hand bitcoin has loads of negatives and very very few positives. On the other hand I can never find anyone addressing my objections in a manner that I find convincing. After much trying, I just ran out of curiousity.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#36

Post by delusional » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

onethought wrote: post #15

svennek wrote: post #3

I think basically because there is nothing interesting left to discus. One camp (where I am in) basically believes it is an environmental disaster, unsuitable for its stated purpose and most likely as scam by the "whales" manipulating the price, and with a potential 51%-disaster. The other camp believes that it is the future of money, untraceable wealth storage and inflation/"confiscation proof" and that all the envi…

The environmental argument is a straw man, and not really related to crypto, but actually related to our energy mix. If crypto was mined only on renewables there is no environmental argument. Ergo, not related to crypto technology itself.

Renewable are also not free. The technology of crypto (as it exists today) is more energy consuming than a single computer processing all the transactions centrally.

No matter how you cut it, that delta is waste if the additional functionality is useless.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#37

Post by beepbooptheory » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

onethought wrote: post #15

svennek wrote: post #3

I think basically because there is nothing interesting left to discus. One camp (where I am in) basically believes it is an environmental disaster, unsuitable for its stated purpose and most likely as scam by the "whales" manipulating the price, and with a potential 51%-disaster. The other camp believes that it is the future of money, untraceable wealth storage and inflation/"confiscation proof" and that all the envi…

The environmental argument is a straw man, and not really related to crypto, but actually related to our energy mix. If crypto was mined only on renewables there is no environmental argument. Ergo, not related to crypto technology itself.

Your argument lacks a modal operator I think.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#38

Post by pennaMan » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

DrNuke wrote: post #10

> Is there any particular reason cryptocurrencies are so divisive while other subjects are not? At this day, end 2021, for what concerns the daily life of billion people worldwide, they are still a very small niche for first-world, trading-like unauthorised gambling? From a technical point of view, sufficient progress has been made… it is politics now, geopolitics and environment, if you like, preventing wider, globa…

>From a technical point of view, sufficient progress has been made

The ancient greeks used to think that they have reached the pinnacle of human progress and that there is no use for further developments because of how comfy life has gotten.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#39

Post by dom96 » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

svennek wrote: post #18

yardstick wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting comments! Do you mind sharing your thoughts on why proof of stake won’t happen?

IMHO because it depends on uncloneability of digital assets.. Which I believe is not possible. The whole thing that makes cryptocurrencies work now is the un-cloneability of the amount of work done (which is why the 51% problem exists in the first place). The only good way of doing it would be through a cartel with strict enforcement of hashrates etc.. And welcome to the financial banking system...

I'm also curious about this but don't really understand this explanation.

Can you elaborate more on what "uncloneability of digital assets" means exactly and why it's a pre-requisite of proof-of-stake? Happy to take some links if there are any that explains this well.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#40

Post by sebow » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

Imo it basically became more of a money-grab and less about the potential of the technology. It also doesn't matter if ultimately all the networks or it's endpoints are centralized.

Then you also get into the government's implication (see Biden's plans), which more or less rots it.

Saying it's useless or entirely a scam is not accurate and we've seen that, but depending on how much of the hype you ate up, it either stagnated or only now some develop upon their promises(and there are a few).

Assuming we fix the complexity,effiency and speed problems, you still have a lot of work about implementing the technology from start to finish.So far we've only seen the vast majority of the development being top->down.Crypto networks that rely upon centralized services are a joke, to put it mildly.