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Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

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Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#31

Post by legostormtroopr »

mherrmann wrote: post #15
junon wrote: post #2

Second Life required you were at least 18 at one point. It was meant more for social gatherings and meeting spots and I think (though I'm not 100%) that they shifted toward "virtual" office spaces with a focus on community building and digital trade using real-life currency. The metaverse, as I understand it, is just Facebook Games but in VR, for kids and bored adults. I think the outcome will be the same, though. I…

> The metaverse, as I understand it, is just Facebook Games but in VR, for kids and bored adults. I don't think that's true. Search for "Horizon Workrooms" to see an (IMHO) significant product they have in the collaboration tool space.

That’s the most dystopian thing about this - the best, most aspiration use for VR they can show case is… meetings, but in VR.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#32

Post by aerosmile »

BoorishBears wrote: post #11
junon wrote: post #2

Second Life required you were at least 18 at one point. It was meant more for social gatherings and meeting spots and I think (though I'm not 100%) that they shifted toward "virtual" office spaces with a focus on community building and digital trade using real-life currency. The metaverse, as I understand it, is just Facebook Games but in VR, for kids and bored adults. I think the outcome will be the same, though. I…

I'm shocked people are taking "Meta" at face value. To me it's a way to signal to outsiders that Facebook is still cool and hip. That's it. Now when recruiting they can play the Meta-not-Facebook angle. Now if they can pad earnings calls with the amazing success the metaverse is seeing (so what if it's losing us money, that's the future!) - It's like an inverse Alphabet. Where Alphabet silently serves as an umbrella…

Nailed it.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#33

Post by Shank »

Conceptually speaking, the difference with AR/VR is that you can have a truly immersive experience, which really does give you more possibilities than just Second Life, which was always just a 3D game world on a 2D screen. The pitch from Meta and with AR/VR is that with the ability to use 3D space, you can actually turn Second Life-style virtual worlds into something useful with actual tangible benefits. For example, VR/AR sense-of-presence totally outclasses video calls, if the intent is to feel like you're really in a room with someone. VRChat is already one of the most popular VR apps for a reason.

Long term, I think that you have to look at it like this: most desktop computing is very very 2D centric and touch centric. If you want to, e.g., buy a product on Amazon, you're dealing with photos and imagery of a product, and reviews. But if you had a "Metaverse equivalent" you could view a 3D model, see it in action, and physically size compare it to other objects in your house much easier than manually checking dimensions.

Obviously the applications and benefits aren't as clear cut right now. I'm not sure that the windowed operating systems we have today would have been the obvious way that computers would be used if it weren't for constant iteration on keyboard centric UI and experimentation over many years. That same innovation trend hasn't happened with AR/VR, and "the metaverse" that people talk about now will likely be totally different 20 years after it becomes a thing, post-iteration and innovation.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#34

Post by 88913527 »

npunt wrote: post #12

Web 1 had a lot of ideas that failed because they were too early, not because they were inherently bad ideas. Not sure if Metaverse will work exactly like SL did, or if its even the right idea, but it certainly will have a larger audience and lower cost of entry for both users and developers.

It's hard for me to imagine one of the incumbents leading the next generation of innovation, despite the copious amounts of capital to execute it. They view the world through their own Overton window, such that the next leap forward will originate from some perspective independent of their own. Brick-and-mortar stores weren't going to be the ones pushing online sales. A lot of the last few years have been copy/paste product ideas from other smaller social media companies: that's the reality. FB realized not everything has to be a timeline. At best, Meta could be something truly novel, but at its worst, it's just marketing to paper over the lack of innovative Product leadership within FB.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#35

Post by brundolf »

nowherebeen wrote: post #16
BoorishBears wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm shocked people are taking "Meta" at face value. To me it's a way to signal to outsiders that Facebook is still cool and hip. That's it. Now when recruiting they can play the Meta-not-Facebook angle. Now if they can pad earnings calls with the amazing success the metaverse is seeing (so what if it's losing us money, that's the future!) - It's like an inverse Alphabet. Where Alphabet silently serves as an umbrella…

> Meta-not-Facebook I am going to start using this term to satisfy people that argue its not called Facebook anymore.

"The artist formerly known as Facebook"

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#36

Post by noduerme »

Shank wrote: post #33

Conceptually speaking, the difference with AR/VR is that you can have a truly immersive experience, which really does give you more possibilities than just Second Life, which was always just a 3D game world on a 2D screen. The pitch from Meta and with AR/VR is that with the ability to use 3D space, you can actually turn Second Life-style virtual worlds into something useful with actual tangible benefits. For example,…

I'm pretty skeptical it'll ever take off. Having tried to hang around in the Oculus Go spaces early on, it was pretty clear no one really had a great reason for being there. You'd sit around a badly rendered bonfire and hear people talking, sometimes interestingly, but it had about the same level of interest as getting on a CB and talking to strangers.

There are two kinds of people you can meet in VR: Friends and strangers. Friends, you can meet privately. You don't need a public space 'verse for that. And as for jostling around or randomly talking to strangers, well, you can walk outside or go to a bar.

It seems pretty nuts that Facebook would actually put its chips on this proposition. I can only view it as a totally desperate attempt to distract from the train wreck of their core business model.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#37

Post by Animats »

0des wrote: post #10
01100011 wrote: post #8

Do you mean the Facebook metaverse or the general concept? I can't comment on Facebook. The current discussion surrounding the 'metaverse' often describes something that is more open, almost like the internet. Whether or not this happens in practice remains to be seen. I think the idea is that you may be able to teleport between worlds(servers run by companies or other entities) and carry some amount of your state wi…

The Facebook metaverse

Facebook has already had three tries at the metaverse - the Oculus version, Facebook Spaces, and Facebook Horizon. They're all so bad that Facebook won't give out user counts.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#38

Post by psyc »

88913527 wrote: post #34
npunt wrote: post #12

Web 1 had a lot of ideas that failed because they were too early, not because they were inherently bad ideas. Not sure if Metaverse will work exactly like SL did, or if its even the right idea, but it certainly will have a larger audience and lower cost of entry for both users and developers.

It's hard for me to imagine one of the incumbents leading the next generation of innovation, despite the copious amounts of capital to execute it. They view the world through their own Overton window, such that the next leap forward will originate from some perspective independent of their own. Brick-and-mortar stores weren't going to be the ones pushing online sales. A lot of the last few years have been copy/paste…

Meta can buy fresh blood. Oculus was acquired. Parts of Oculus were acquired and acquihired. If a smaller company innovates in this space, acquisition by Meta is an obvious business plan. Zuckerberg is a geek almost young enough to be my kid. If I can imagine a thriving metaverse, and I can, I don’t see why he can’t.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#39

Post by cybernautique »

cloudking wrote: post #29
cybernautique wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't use a non-FOSS platform or experience for non-corporate reasons. My employer wants me to use a particular hardware? Fine, but I'm not using my money for it, I won't like it, and I'll break it every chance I get. The idea that I will work and play in the metaverse is forever and eternally blocked by which particular group of assholes is trying to wrangle me. If it's a group that allows me the same access th…

I respect your opinion and completely understand where you are coming from, but I think you should also consider the amount of technical effort, organization and money required to build something like an open platform/protocol for the metaverse + all the advanced hardware required. It would be awesome if a group of strangers from the internet were able to band together and build this, but let's face it, they will hav…

I absolutely respect the technical challenge of the Metaverse, but also: I'm not really interested in it.

I live a fairly tech-minimal lifestyle already. I have my computer, which is largely a tty machine, and my phone. All of my media is either downloaded music files, pirated lectures, or physical books.

I think of VR/AR, the Metaverse, etc. ... and it fills me with a sort of vertigo. I'm desperately in love with my physical existence, as such. I very much abhor any attempt to make computers _more_ present in my life.

I'm happy to wait 30+ years for a Metaverse that doesn't repulse me. If I were to die without ever having worn a VR headset, I'd be likewise happy.

I'm much more interested in finding ways to meaningfully, socially, connect via my terminal. I've been happy with IRC for the past 5 years and see no reason why I won't be happy in the future.

EDIT: thanks to mosh and termux, my phone is also largely a tty machine.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#40

Post by mherrmann »

legostormtroopr wrote: post #31
mherrmann wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The metaverse, as I understand it, is just Facebook Games but in VR, for kids and bored adults. I don't think that's true. Search for "Horizon Workrooms" to see an (IMHO) significant product they have in the collaboration tool space.

That’s the most dystopian thing about this - the best, most aspiration use for VR they can show case is… meetings, but in VR.

What's wrong with that? That meetings are necessary in modern working life is a fact. So might as well have products and services that make them better on some axes. And it doesn't necessarily have to be just office meetings either. University lectures or tutorials this way also sound pretty cool to me. You could have a student from Taiwan, the US, Germany and Sweden sit in the same classroom and interact, without having to travel thousands of miles. I think that's very cool.
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