Holy shit faceted search is now attracting patent trolls? I would do 2 things: 1. Talk to 4 or 5 different patent laywers (for free). Learn. 2. Contact other companies that also use faceted search (everyone does) and ask to talk to the person in charge. Perhaps you can work together? I'm pretty sure there will be prior art to the patent. The first time I saw faceted search on the web was epinions.com (2001-ish), but…
Ask HN: We just got patent trolled by Kelora Systems. Need Advice
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Re: Ask HN: We just got patent trolled by Kelora Systems. Need Advice
#32We also received the letter. We have several attorneys working on this right now. One attorney we just learned of is Sid Leach in Phoenix, he specializes in patent law and has spent considerable time dealing with patent trolls. Our attorneys will be contacting him in addition to the work they are already doing. Many, many companies have received this letter. Our current take is that the patent will ultimately be prov…
Re: Ask HN: We just got patent trolled by Kelora Systems. Need Advice
#33Oh, and if you've been targeted by them, reach out to me and let me know. I'm hearing that there may have been some mistakes made by this law firm in their process which may expose them to some legal dangers, themselves. If you've been targeted by them, I'd be happy to share what I know, but won't do it in a public forum. Not yet. I have been asked to help gather info that may prove very useful in a push-back, info w…
Re: Ask HN: We just got patent trolled by Kelora Systems. Need Advice
#34Re: Ask HN: We just got patent trolled by Kelora Systems. Need Advice
#35also, they provided an incorrect value of our estimated annual revenues, almost double over our actual amount. would this have any relevance? i am wondering where they obtained this information from, probably those questionnaires you have to fill out to get a free magazine.
Re: Ask HN: We just got patent trolled by Kelora Systems. Need Advice
#36But......
We got this letter about a year ago. The price then was $35,000 if paid within 2 weeks, $70,000 after that. If you didn't pay, they were "gonna getcha'". A ton got this email. I doubt many paid (we certainly didn't).
New suits by Kelora since they sent that letter over a year ago?
Zero.
I would confer with a lawyer loooooooong before I would pony up to Kelora. They are bleeding money to lawyers trying to make a large sum off of one of the big boys. Its been 3 years since PartsRiver started down this path and 1 year since Kelora picked up the torch with absolutely nothing to show for it.
They need to cover their lawyer fees. They must be getting really low on funds now if they've upped it to $150k....
(also, correct me if I'm wrong, this second group of letters are the threat of suit, not actually suits, correct?)
Re: Ask HN: We just got patent trolled by Kelora Systems. Need Advice
#37As always, talk to a lawyer and nothing offered here is legal advice nor should be taken as such. But...... We got this letter about a year ago. The price then was $35,000 if paid within 2 weeks, $70,000 after that. If you didn't pay, they were "gonna getcha'". A ton got this email. I doubt many paid (we certainly didn't). New suits by Kelora since they sent that letter over a year ago? Zero. I would confer with a la…
Re: Ask HN: We just got patent trolled by Kelora Systems. Need Advice
#38http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/califor...
"A patent is invalid pursuant to 35 U.S.C. § 102(b) if the claimed invention is offered for sale more than one year before the filing date of the patent application. Here, the "critical date" is October 14, 1993, which is one year before the filing date of the ‘821 patent application.
The Court concludes that claims 1 and 2 of the ‘821 patent are invalid due to the on-sale bar because they were the subject of a commercial offer for sale of an invention that was reduced to practice before October 14, 1993."
This was were the initial patent was ruled invalid due to the OnSale bar. Not being a lawyer, I'm not sure how changes they made to it made the OnSale bar no longer valid. Do the changes somehow effect the patent/conception date?
The original filing date was October 14, 1994 and, according to the above court documents:
"As noted above, Danish, a co-inventor of the ‘821 patent, and Plaintiff have conceded that claims 1 and 2 were reduced to practice in April, 1992"
It is tough to claim prior-art as early as '92 or '94. But, if the changes to the patent somehow makes the onsale bar no longer valid, does it change or negate those two dates.
Prior-Art could be claimed on a few different things. Faceted search can definitely be found in different things as early as the late 90s:
http://idl.ils.unc.edu/rave/history.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faceted_search
It might be a stretch but, as others have stated, you could make an argument that faceted search has prior-art as early as the mid 1930s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colon_classification
There are a few libraries that use it but it isn't clear when it was instituted.
Re: Ask HN: We just got patent trolled by Kelora Systems. Need Advice
#39http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/califor...
"A patent is invalid pursuant to 35 U.S.C. § 102(b) if the claimed invention is offered for sale more than one year before the filing date of the patent application. Here, the "critical date" is October 14, 1993, which is one year before the filing date of the ‘821 patent application.
The Court concludes that claims 1 and 2 of the ‘821 patent are invalid due to the on-sale bar because they were the subject of a commercial offer for sale of an invention that was reduced to practice before October 14, 1993."
This was were the initial patent was ruled invalid due to the OnSale bar. Not being a lawyer, I'm not sure how changes they made to it made the OnSale bar no longer valid. Do the changes somehow effect the patent/conception date?
The original filing date was October 14, 1994 and, according to the above court documents:
"As noted above, Danish, a co-inventor of the ‘821 patent, and Plaintiff have conceded that claims 1 and 2 were reduced to practice in April, 1992"
It is tough to claim prior-art as early as '92 or '94. But, if the changes to the patent somehow makes the onsale bar no longer valid, does it change or negate those two dates.
Prior-Art could be claimed on a few different things. Faceted search can definitely be found in different things as early as the late 90s:
http://idl.ils.unc.edu/rave/history.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faceted_search
It might be a stretch but, as others have stated, you could make an argument that faceted search has prior-art as early as the mid 1930s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colon_classification
There are a few libraries that use it but it isn't clear when it was instituted.