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Ask HN: What a universal remote job salary should be?

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Re: Ask HN: What a universal remote job salary should be?

#31

Post by tharne »

smt88 wrote: post #13
drouffithesix wrote: post #2

Interesting and what if i work remotely from a poor country? would i be subject to the same salary as them?

You can always apply for those remote jobs and ask for the same salary. As someone who has always been on fully remote teams, I've found that ease of communication and time zones are a big deal. If someone is harder to communicate with (English is a second language) or doesn't overlap with the rest of the team's work day and costs the same as a dev in the US, I may end up going with the dev in the US. People who says…

This is my experience too. People, including myself initially, vastly underestimate the impact of a language barrier and time zone issues. I'm not in charge of how we hire where I work, but if I were, I'd happy trade 5 Asia-based devs for 2 U.S.-based devs. And the offshore folks I work with have solid skills, but the communication challenges and time zone differences really hamper productivity.

Re: Ask HN: What a universal remote job salary should be?

#32

Post by tharne »

LimaBearz wrote: post #4
drouffithesix wrote: post #2

Interesting and what if i work remotely from a poor country? would i be subject to the same salary as them?

Yes. Products companies produce aren’t cheaper in say India or Mexico then they are in the US.. because they are valued at a certain dollar amount they deem fair. Why should a human being be any different? A good engineer produces certain value, regardless of where they live

Humans aren't products.

Re: Ask HN: What a universal remote job salary should be?

#33

Post by ceffio »

LimaBearz wrote: post #4
drouffithesix wrote: post #2

Interesting and what if i work remotely from a poor country? would i be subject to the same salary as them?

Yes. Products companies produce aren’t cheaper in say India or Mexico then they are in the US.. because they are valued at a certain dollar amount they deem fair. Why should a human being be any different? A good engineer produces certain value, regardless of where they live

Companies price discriminate.

Re: Ask HN: What a universal remote job salary should be?

#34

Post by smt88 »

notsag-hn wrote: post #18
smt88 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always apply for those remote jobs and ask for the same salary. As someone who has always been on fully remote teams, I've found that ease of communication and time zones are a big deal. If someone is harder to communicate with (English is a second language) or doesn't overlap with the rest of the team's work day and costs the same as a dev in the US, I may end up going with the dev in the US. People who says…

If you aren't able to estimate how much value somebody would bring to the team before hiring them, you maybe should oil your hiring process a bit. Also assuming you can trust somebody more or less depending on their legal jurisdiction says a lot about your company's culture

> If you aren't able to estimate how much value somebody would bring to the team before hiring them, you maybe should oil your hiring process a bit.

I can't interview someone for a few hours and predict how they will be as an employee. No one can.

Sometimes you hire people and are under-paying them, sometimes you're over-paying them.

> assuming you can trust somebody more or less depending on their legal jurisdiction says a lot about your company's culture

So are you saying that all countries have the same laws, and all those laws are equally enforced?

If one of my US employees embezzles money from a client using Stripe credentials, I can easily find and prosecute that person (as long as they're still in the US). Anyone US employee would know this and weigh it against their reasons for wanting to embezzle in the first place (if they have any).

If one of my employees in (let's say) Pakistan did the same thing, there is absolutely nothing I can do. I have no recourse. They would easily get away with it.

It is common and normal to trust people more when they're in the same jurisdiction as you and abide by the same laws.

Re: Ask HN: What a universal remote job salary should be?

#35

Post by offtop5 »

Leherenn wrote: post #20
offtop5 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if, why not just legally live of your uncle who has an apartment in San Francisco, while you defacto live in South Alabama. With remote jobs I don't understand why someone living in a cheaper City should get less.

It's not a matter of should. It's just that, on average, someone in a cheaper city will accept less than someone in an expensive city because what is too little to cover rent in some places allows you to live like a king elsewhere. It's just supply and demand. Give 50k in a poor country, and (assuming there are enough qualified people), you will have quite a lot of choice. Give 50k in SF and people will be laughing a…

At least in America no one who makes 50k in Alabama will be worth 200k in SF.

Re: Ask HN: What a universal remote job salary should be?

#36

Post by g3rv4 »

notsag-hn wrote: post #15

Living in a poor country shouldn't be a reason to get a low rate. But this is really common, mostly because companies look for people in third-world countries to get the same level of employees waaay cheaper. I'm from Uruguay and have had interviewers thinking they're doing me a favor for extending me an offer in USD, even if it's ridiculously low for my experience. In the end it depends on how the potential employee…

ha, I'm also from Uruguay. A couple months ago I received 3 offers. One of them explained their offer was "the salary from Philadelphia adjusted to the local market". The other two offers where comparable to what I've been making (similar to a US salary). I didn't go for the "local-market adjusted" one.

The only thing they're doing is missing on some talent, but that could be ok for them.

Re: Ask HN: What a universal remote job salary should be?

#37

Post by g3rv4 »

g3rv4 wrote: post #36
notsag-hn wrote: post #15

Living in a poor country shouldn't be a reason to get a low rate. But this is really common, mostly because companies look for people in third-world countries to get the same level of employees waaay cheaper. I'm from Uruguay and have had interviewers thinking they're doing me a favor for extending me an offer in USD, even if it's ridiculously low for my experience. In the end it depends on how the potential employee…

ha, I'm also from Uruguay. A couple months ago I received 3 offers. One of them explained their offer was "the salary from Philadelphia adjusted to the local market". The other two offers where comparable to what I've been making (similar to a US salary). I didn't go for the "local-market adjusted" one. The only thing they're doing is missing on some talent, but that could be ok for them.

Also: nice to see you here as well, this is a small scene :P it took me a bit to recognize you!

Re: Ask HN: What a universal remote job salary should be?

#38

Post by iExploder »

ipnon wrote: post #5

Some studies suggest happiness per dollar salary peaks around $65k to $90k USD. So for an international corporation where obviously most people will have cheaper cost of living than the United States, that seems a good starting point. This is low for Silicon Valley salaries so it may dissuade those accommodated to salaries in that high range.

some studies suggest some studies are full of BS

Re: Ask HN: What a universal remote job salary should be?

#39

Post by notsag-hn »

smt88 wrote: post #34
notsag-hn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you aren't able to estimate how much value somebody would bring to the team before hiring them, you maybe should oil your hiring process a bit. Also assuming you can trust somebody more or less depending on their legal jurisdiction says a lot about your company's culture

> If you aren't able to estimate how much value somebody would bring to the team before hiring them, you maybe should oil your hiring process a bit. I can't interview someone for a few hours and predict how they will be as an employee. No one can. Sometimes you hire people and are under-paying them, sometimes you're over-paying them. > assuming you can trust somebody more or less depending on their legal jurisdiction…

You may underpay or overpay people, that can also happen with local people. I bet you don't leave much space for overpaying a foreigner if they are already getting 50% of what a local would get.

Regarding the criminal related comment, you should first and foremost trust and empower your employees independently of where they come from. And then you should also have controls in place to make it really difficult to steal your clients' money.

Re: Ask HN: What a universal remote job salary should be?

#40

Post by brokenkebab »

notsag-hn wrote: post #15

Living in a poor country shouldn't be a reason to get a low rate. But this is really common, mostly because companies look for people in third-world countries to get the same level of employees waaay cheaper. I'm from Uruguay and have had interviewers thinking they're doing me a favor for extending me an offer in USD, even if it's ridiculously low for my experience. In the end it depends on how the potential employee…

In most countries to hire a remote foreigner requires to jump over some legal, and accounting complications. So yes, they do it because they want to find a cheaper deal abroad. It's pretty much the only reason why it makes sense for them, besides searching for very rare skills. And there's nothing wrong with it. Nobody is prohibited to try to negotiate the same rate as in an expensive city in US, and good for you if your qualifications allow you to have success with it, but in most cases it means a company would be better hiring a US employee instead of outsourcing.
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