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Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#31

Post by ceceron »

teknopaul wrote: post #21
lpfabiani wrote: post #7

I worked for a while in the R&D department of HP printer division. As @jacquesm said, good 2D printer costs peanuts. The amount of R&D in color quality, speed and other parameters is huge. There were a lot of teams involved: mechanical, electrical, software, chemical... And because of that investment, there are thousands of patents that the big players are continuously paying each other for. It's a very old market wi…

bit of a non-argument this. Existence of cheap alternatives misses the point of opensource, its not about cost. ref: free as in beer vs free as in speech.

Sure, but money is a very effective motivational power. If something is expensive, there is a higher need to produce an alternative.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#33

Post by wegs »

detaro wrote: post #6

Printers are cheap and widely available, which leaves a DIY printer which is going to be slower, more error-prone and more expensive as a very niche idea. There is a clear benefit to buying or building an open hobby 3D printer, whereas that's harder to argue for a 2D one - while there is a lot of crap around, there's enough workable choices, aftermarket inks/toner works, you likely won't be modifying/tuning a 2D prin…

I don't think this is quite right. An open source 2d printer would allow for a lot of things commercial printers don't allow for. For example, I'd like to be able to print on things which are not paper. If I had an inkjet head mounted on something, there's a ton I could do with it, from modifying it to print directly on fabric, to integrating it with other fabrication technologies to make decorated objects. Even a CNC mill or laser cutter with an integrated printhead would be invaluable, both for labeling parts and decoratively (for making pretty parts).

There's a massive growth curve too. If we could find a way to print on plastic, we could integrate this with a 3d printer and make decorated parts. I think this would be multiple stages of amateur R&D, but it would eventually happen (yes, I suspect someone will respond with all the technical issues why it can't work with current technology, ignoring all disclaimers -- I am aware this won't work right now).

I think of tons of other use cases.

I think the problem is as others have described. Making a printhead costs peanuts, but engineering one and NREs are astronomical. Ditto for paper handling, and many other parts of the printer. There used to be an printhead open enough for DIY (you could buy them in quantities of 1, and there was a spec sheet), but it's not sold anymore.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#35

Post by fsflover »

cocoapuffs7 wrote: post #13
fsflover wrote: post #3

See also: https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-d... ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 ) Some of the documents that we previously received through FOIA suggested that all major manufacturers of color laser printers entered a secret agreement with governments to ensure that the output of those printers is forensically traceable.

Yes. But this is unrelated to the question they asked.

I don't think so. The current situation suggests that we really need an open-source printer, because otherwise there is no privacy at all.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#36

Post by teddyh »

I wish that the intelligence in printers would migrate back to the computer. Having printers with their own complex formats (PCL, PostScript, etc.) only makes them inscrutable and lends itself to proprietary competing formats and printouts which never gets quite right. I think the original NeXT machine was on the right track with their simple bitmap-only laser printer, where the PostScript processing was done on the computer side.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#37

Post by gbrown »

teddyh wrote: post #36

I wish that the intelligence in printers would migrate back to the computer. Having printers with their own complex formats (PCL, PostScript, etc.) only makes them inscrutable and lends itself to proprietary competing formats and printouts which never gets quite right. I think the original NeXT machine was on the right track with their simple bitmap-only laser printer, where the PostScript processing was done on the…

Given the size of the damn drivers you’d think this was already the case.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#38

Post by KlaymenDK »

sparkling wrote: post #19

Here is a business idea: the printer that just works. Requirements: - laser printer that works with non-proprietary toners - USB plug & play on all major operating systems - Network printing via WiFi and ethernet - No 2GB bloatware installation required, i dont want your shitty photo management software, just give me the driver - Replaceable parts

Buy any Brother printer and use the generic Linux driver. Done.

Well, perhaps not the "replaceable parts", but that is doable with a 3D printer. I doubt Brother would come after you for printing a new output tray hinge or custom-colour button set ... and I doubt any other parts are likely to outright 'break' (my laser printers of various brands have lasted around two decades each). Any other parts, such as the image drum, would require too specialized fabrication to be done at home or at the local fab lab.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#39

Post by thdrdt »

"In the 3D printing world, there are plenty of open source choices, ..."

The 3D printers you are talking about are very simple. Those are Fused Deposition Modeling and StereoLithography printers.

But there are also 3D printers that work like 2D printers. For example Selective Laser Sintering and PolyJet printers. Just like 2D printers they are very hard to make. Those type of printers are also not available as open source choice.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#40

Post by username505 »

fsflover wrote: post #3

See also: https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-d... ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 ) Some of the documents that we previously received through FOIA suggested that all major manufacturers of color laser printers entered a secret agreement with governments to ensure that the output of those printers is forensically traceable.

This and exactly this; 2D printing technology is sealed tight because of those damn microdots. Lulz
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