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Ask HN: How to develop a growth mindset?

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Re: Ask HN: How to develop a growth mindset?

#31

I just remember this quote: "Sucking at something is the first step to being good at something". You might not be able to do that new thing right now, but if you try, suck at it and keep trying, eventually you will be able to do it to some degree of proficiency. I haven't found much of anything in life that you can't get better at by trying again and again.

>> I haven't found much of anything in life that you can't get better at by trying again and again.

I used to think the same way until I tried learning to play guitar. Have been trying it for a year now and I seriously question if I will ever be able to do it with reasonable proficiency. (So far holding on though.)

Re: Ask HN: How to develop a growth mindset?

#32

I want to make a case against having a "growth mindset". And against fighting procrastination. And any other self improvement stuff. - all these things happen at a much lower level than conscious thought. We have approaches to achieving based on genetics, early upbringing, life experiences, etc. No amount of wanting things to be different will make it so. - there are no recipes. There is just doing stuff, some will s…

What do I do if I'm not successful then? I've dealt with suicidal ideation before, but everyone then just told me that it was a problem of mindset. If I'm not capable of becoming successful then...what's the point?

Personally, I agree with you - my will to live is certainly predicated on theoretically being able to be directly responsible for significant accomplishment. The attitude that everything is set in stone and you can't change anything about your circumstances has always seemed a bit silly to me.

What the parent comment said is probably true for the majority of cases - most people will succeed or fail due to external factors outside of their control. But you'd have to perform some impressive mental gymnastics to assert that Elon Musk just keeps getting lucky because of his environment, and not because of his own actions.

That being said, I think at some point you have to decide who you want to be. Elon Musk is an insane outlier in every way, and his life is the extreme opposite of stability and peace. I don't think that reality is unrelated to his success. So the parent has a point - accomplishment/self-improvement/growth aren't going to make everyone happy. Some people prefer stability over learning new things.

It doesn't make sense for me, but I can understand why some people want to live their life that way.

Re: Ask HN: How to develop a growth mindset?

#33
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes a lot of behavior happens due to lower level thinking than consciousness, but that doesn't mean it can't be influenced. Yes failure has a cost, but it's also a great way to learn. If you're not going to do anything because you fear failure, then will you truly be happier at the end of your long life thinking gee I sure am happy I didn't attempt anything. Yes there are a lot of ulterior motive teachers out there,…

I am bound to run into hundreds of disclaimers on my post. Ofc this is not an argument for not doing anything. OP mentions he is doing new things but sometimes he doesn't. And I just wanted to say that sometimes is perfectly ok not to.

Hacker News encourage people to use the principle of charity: criticize the best interpretation of an argument.

They failed to do so with yours. It's easy to interpret what anyone says as if they mean it in an absolute way, it's 100% not helpful.

On another hand, sometimes I unconsciously do it too, it's something you need to practice (self-improvement? heh)

Re: Ask HN: How to develop a growth mindset?

#34
At one point I had a big realization that perfectionism was keeping me from ever going outside my comfort zone. This meant that for decades I had only really been growing in areas where I was naturally gifted and experienced (logic, math and similar) but failed to grow much in areas where I wasn't (e.g. emotional intelligence and interpersonal skills) because that way I never really had to fear failure, or challenge my self-image as 'someone who always succeeds'. I realized just how skewed that had made me - like a bodybuilder pumping iron with his strong arm, while the other arm hangs weakly by his side, atrophying. I realized how arrogant I had been to try to justify this neglect by thinking of the areas that I was bad at as less important than the ones I'm good at (they're not). And I realized how cowardly I had been to be so fearful of failure, how much it had hurt my mental health to tie up my self-worth with that self-image of someone that always succeeds. So I ate some humble pie, finally confronted my perfectionism, started focusing on strengthening my weak side, and adopted a new mantra: "If you never fail, you're not being ambitious enough". To this day, I still struggle to live up to this, but at least now I know what I'm up against, and what I'm trying to achieve - the clarity really helps.

Re: Ask HN: How to develop a growth mindset?

#35

I want to make a case against having a "growth mindset". And against fighting procrastination. And any other self improvement stuff. - all these things happen at a much lower level than conscious thought. We have approaches to achieving based on genetics, early upbringing, life experiences, etc. No amount of wanting things to be different will make it so. - there are no recipes. There is just doing stuff, some will s…

What do I do if I'm not successful then? I've dealt with suicidal ideation before, but everyone then just told me that it was a problem of mindset. If I'm not capable of becoming successful then...what's the point?

Try mindfulness, seriously

Re: Ask HN: How to develop a growth mindset?

#37
I've never really looked into this "growth mindset" fad, but based on what I'm seeing here, I probably have it.

What is my secret?

I look up "how to" on the subject and learn about it until I'm comfortable with the amount of risk involved in trying it.

That means that if I want to tile my bathroom floor, I watch Youtube videos on tiling and find out how much the materials will cost and what it would cost to fix my mistake if it's so bad that I can't fix it myself.

The result of that was my first attempt at floor tiling going very, very well, but with a lot of hard work that probably could have been easier if I'd known more. But everyone says the tile looks amazing. I see the flaws, but they don't until I point them out.

The same goes with programming at work. I've almost never said "no", but I've often said, "I'll have to look into that" and it often results in creating a proof of concept for the hardest part before actually attempting the whole project. I usually end up doing it, and it almost always works out.

So my "growth mindset" is simply to look up tutorials before saying "no".

Re: Ask HN: How to develop a growth mindset?

#38
I just read a really good book about this: The Inner Game of Tennis. The book is old and never mentions the phrase “growth mindset,” but it goes into great detail about how often the judging mind gets in the way of the subconscious mind when learning new skills.

I read the book primarily to help with meditation skills, and it gave me a lot of new perspective during my sits.

Re: Ask HN: How to develop a growth mindset?

#39

I want to make a case against having a "growth mindset". And against fighting procrastination. And any other self improvement stuff. - all these things happen at a much lower level than conscious thought. We have approaches to achieving based on genetics, early upbringing, life experiences, etc. No amount of wanting things to be different will make it so. - there are no recipes. There is just doing stuff, some will s…

The Allan Watts passage:

> "I know all kinds of people who've got this 'higher self' going, practicing their yoga - but they're just like ordinary people, sometimes a little worse. And they can fool themselves. They can say for example, 'Well, my point of view in religion is very liberal. I believe that all religions have divine revelation in them, but I don't understand the way you people fight about it. You fight and say that we Jehovah's Witnesses have the real religion, others say we Roman Catholics have it. And the Muslims say, no, it is in the Quran, and this is the right way.' And somebody else gets up, and he may be a rather highbrow Catholic who says, 'Well, God has given the spirit to all the traditions, but, ours is the most refined and mature.' And then somebody comes along and says, 'Well they're all equally revelations of the divine - and in seeing this, of course, I'm much more tolerant than you are.' Do you see how that game is going to work? Or, I could take this position - supposing you regard me as some sort of a guru. And you know how gurus hate each other. They're always putting each other down. And I could say, 'Well, I don't put other gurus down.' See, that outwits all of them! We're always doing that. We're always finding a way to be one-up, and by the most incredibly subtle means. So you see that, you see. And you say, 'I realize I'm always doing that. Tell me, how do I not do that?' I say, 'Why do you want to know?' You say, 'Well, I'd be better that way!' 'Yeah, but why do you want to be better?' You see - the reason why you want to be better is the reason why you aren't. Shall I put it like that? We aren't better because we want to be."

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Alan Watts is always entertaining. I think this has quite narrow applicability towards self-contradictory pursuits of virtue i.e. the motivation for self-perfection or trying to become more moral is likely to be riven with status anxiety not moral intention.

I don't think it applies to skill acquisition whose motivation may or may not be virtuous but it isn't self-contradictory. Overcoming procrastination is in part a skill to use tools like pre-commitments, habit entrainment, implementation intentions, reward and relaxation management as well as deeper tasks like resolving the sources of anxiety and it's triggers that cause avoidance.

Re: Ask HN: How to develop a growth mindset?

#40

I want to make a case against having a "growth mindset". And against fighting procrastination. And any other self improvement stuff. - all these things happen at a much lower level than conscious thought. We have approaches to achieving based on genetics, early upbringing, life experiences, etc. No amount of wanting things to be different will make it so. - there are no recipes. There is just doing stuff, some will s…

>I want to make a case against [...] And against fighting procrastination.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote but I disagree about not fighting procrastination and thus letting it happen because of subconscious thought.

Procrastination leads to a lot of destructive outcomes and unhappiness. E.g. I kept procrastinating the cancellation of my gym club membership that I never used because stopping in person to sign the cancellation papers was a hassle. That procrastination cost me over $1000 of extra monthly fees for zero benefit. Staying with the example of fitness, I used to procrastinate the treadmill run in the afternoon because I've never liked exercise. I solved that procrastination by just doing it first thing in the morning before breakfast. I still have many areas in life I procrastinate but I keep trying to find "mental hacks" to reduce the damage it causes.

I'll add nuance by attempting to categorize 2 types of procrastination: (1) tasks that others think are important vs (2) tasks you really want to do

An example of (1) might be today's HN story on the front page suggesting you read Milton's "Paradise Lost". Ok, you then add it to your "mental todo" pile but as a result, you keep procrastinating your "education of classic literature". Well, maybe instead of letting that form of procrastination gnaw at you, it's better to be honest with yourself and just say you're not interested in reading it. A better use of time is to focus on the things you really want to do.

>And any other self improvement stuff.

To clarify, are you against the products/services/coaching being sold for self improvement -- or are you against the idea itself of self improvement?

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