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Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

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Re: Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

#31

Post by testbot123 »

tjansen wrote: post #29
testbot123 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minorities have been trying to prove their worth to the US since the inception of the country (which was built on their backs). It hasn't changed anything. And why isn't it that the non-minorities shouldn't be the ones who are groveling and seeking to be model citizens? Remember that if a white police officer hadn't killed a black man in the street, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. By your logic, sh…

Perception is mostly shaped by frequency. It doesn't matter that much what most people of the minority do. It matters what the others see. To give you an example: if you have little personal contact to a specific minority, and over 50% of the people of that minority you see on TV are either criminals on local news, or musicians and actors playing gangsters, everyone who doesn't have a lot of contact with them in real…

> To give you an example: if you have little personal contact to a specific minority, and over 50% of the people of that minority you see on TV are either criminals on local news, or musicians and actors playing gangsters, everyone who doesn't have a lot of contact with them in real life is getting scared every time they see someone who fits the profile.

Yes, I agree that the portrayal of minorities in the mass media in the Western world is incredibly racist. Part of the reason for this is the racism inherent in the US justice system -- you're currently witnessing worldwide protests over it.

However, I also see many representations of non-minorities portrayed in negative light -- why is it that only minorities are forced to atone for fictionalized representations of themselves and are not regarded as individuals with their own agency, lives, dreams, hopes, pains, and instead must be lumped into the same group and called to account for the actions of someone that happens to have the same skin color?

> By the way, this is not limited to race, but also for example applies to people with tattoos. If all tattooed people you see are criminals, you are scared by tattooed people as well. It works with every property of people that's easily visible.

People choose to be tattooed.

"Be more visibly obedient to the cultural norms of racists" is not a valid suggestion for addressing systemic racism.

Re: Ask HN: How are your companies addressing systemic racism?

#32

Post by tjansen »

testbot123 wrote: post #31
tjansen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perception is mostly shaped by frequency. It doesn't matter that much what most people of the minority do. It matters what the others see. To give you an example: if you have little personal contact to a specific minority, and over 50% of the people of that minority you see on TV are either criminals on local news, or musicians and actors playing gangsters, everyone who doesn't have a lot of contact with them in real…

> To give you an example: if you have little personal contact to a specific minority, and over 50% of the people of that minority you see on TV are either criminals on local news, or musicians and actors playing gangsters, everyone who doesn't have a lot of contact with them in real life is getting scared every time they see someone who fits the profile. Yes, I agree that the portrayal of minorities in the mass media…

> Part of the reason for this is the racism inherent in the US justice system

What's the root cause of that? A long time ago it was an economic incentive, but that incentive doesn't exist anymore. Today, I think, it's bias.

> instead must be lumped into the same group and called to account for the actions of someone that happens to have the same skin color

Because that's how the human brain works. It classifies things based on previous experiences. It is biased by design. You need to change the input to change the outcome.

Luckily, today, media is a huge part of the input and thus it is relatively easy to change.

> People choose to be tattooed.

Yes. But you are arguing on a different level. You are arguing in terms of fairness and guilt. I would agree with you on that level if that would be all there is to it. If there was a way that the majority could overcome racism by just wanting it enough, I would also agree with you. But in the real world you can not change the perception of other people without at least some cooperation to create an impression that creates a positive experience.

Some people chose to be part of a visually distinctive group. Others are just born into it. But independent of how you got into the group, the consequences are the same. Not because it is fair (it isn't), but just because that's the way humans work.

> "Be more visibly obedient to the cultural norms of racists"

You can change the cultural norms to avoid elements of racism, and you can change the norms to find a middle ground, but I don't think you can live in a world without bias without also having common cultural norms. People are always biased against those who live outside their cultural norms.

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